Archived Insubordination

Status
Not open for further replies.
BullseyeBabe said:
So, if you ask a TM to do something and they do an eye roll or big dramatic sigh is that insubordination?
Click to expand...

Why the fuck are you reviving a 2 year old thread?
 
NPC said:
Why the fuck are you reviving a 2 year old thread?
Click to expand...

Because the thread was still open and the convention is to look for an existing thread rather than starting a new one? If threads should be closed out after a certain amount of time, rather than hang out for people to post new, related situations then that's cool, but the thread is still open and the question relevant to the title.
 
IWishIKnew said:
Because the thread was still open and the convention is to look for an existing thread rather than starting a new one? If threads should be closed out after a certain amount of time, rather than hang out for people to post new, related situations then that's cool, but the thread is still open and the question relevant to the title.
Click to expand...

he barely asked a question though!!!!. *triggered*
 
If they actually did the job , then I wouldn’t consider it insubordination. Bad attitude, yes...but is attitude a coachable offense?
 
Anelmi said:
If they actually did the job , then I wouldn’t consider it insubordination. Bad attitude, yes...but is attitude a coachable offense?
Click to expand...
Actually it is because it contributes to a hostil work environment. I have a very dry sense of sarcasm my old leaders got it but these new young hotsjots dont and I have been coached twice on my "bad attitude". For example my etl ap knows me well and when he says my name I instantly say no he laughs or says something sarcastic gives me orders and I do them. My new etl heard our convo one day and dragged me in the office. So now I smile nod and dont talk to the etls unless absolutely necessary. Gotta be a good little minow to keep my roof for the dog ya know.
 
aronoiiel said:
Actually it is because it contributes to a hostil work environment. I have a very dry sense of sarcasm my old leaders got it but these new young hotsjots dont and I have been coached twice on my "bad attitude". For example my etl ap knows me well and when he says my name I instantly say no he laughs or says something sarcastic gives me orders and I do them. My new etl heard our convo one day and dragged me in the office. So now I smile nod and dont talk to the etls unless absolutely necessary. Gotta be a good little minow to keep my roof for the dog ya know.
Click to expand...


It's tough.
I tend to operate at maximum snark but my bosses know that I will always do the work.

Recently the manager of our area retired and one of the counselors who is a friend stepped into her place.
There had always been a friendly banter where my friend and I would make snarky comments back and forth.
When she became the boss I discovered quickly that people who didn't know us saw that as insubordination or worse.
I have had to draw back considerably, which is kind of sad.
 
I always choose education over punishment, but it’s all about the TMs attitude when you bring up the issue.

I caught a TM gouging the floor with a pallet, and I really liked the guy. I told him to stop, and showed why it was happening but he started with jokes like “I wasn’t aware the floor is soooo important. I’ll be sure to take good care of the floor when I’m doing everything else.” All in front of 2 other TMs and a TL.

Ok pal, catch me in TSC in an hour to sign some paperwork for damaging company property. Everyone else was receptive to talking about the issue but if you want to make fun of me in front of other TMs I’ll change my tune real quick.

When you have a hard copied break schedule like you do and a history of issues (which it sounds like) you just have to put ink on the paper and document it or you’ll be stuck with someone causing stress on the rest of the team. Always remember if they’re causeing you issues, they’re causing other people issues as well.
 
This is why I'm general I write people up for failure to follow instructions unless it's an issue surrounding core roles of the position then that is performance. It's a we've had this conversation before, now your responsible because you didn't follow instructions. There was only one time I've been close to writing a CCA and they ignored me twice and another lead for the same thing request. It was definitely a pull off the floor sit in the office kind of talk because the next step is the STL.

They were on a CCA for both NCNS and Failure to Follow directions in short order. I'll fight for you if you do your job and work with you to improve, but insubordination even if they don't get termed for it means I'm documenting EVERYTHING.
 
I'm a GSTL, fairly new to my store, and we were backed up and my cashier had turned her light off to do a RedCard app. I told her to turn her light on because it looked like we didn't have any lanes open on that side of the store...she literally shook her head at me and told me no. She was at the end of her RedCard app and literally turned it on 20 seconds later.
In hindsight, I really should've given her a PDD but we were extremely busy and I didn't have time to pull her aside and talk to her. It was last week so I feel like that ship has sailed. If she tells me no again though, I'm definitely going to give her a PDD for insubordination. After that, it will be a CCA, no questions asked. She's one of those that have been with the company for years...even though I'm new to the store, still have to follow my direction because I see things that you don't. Especially since I'll be the one getting yelled at if my ETL-GE comes up and sees that we're backed up and asking why her light is off. Any thoughts?
 
newbutoldtm said:
because I see things that you don't.
Click to expand...
black-man-asking-oh-really-meme.jpg
 
You’d say it was off because she was doing a RC application. And that would be good enough for LOD bc RCs are gold. And it should be a more than acceptable reason for you to defend. Our cashiers are told to turn off their light when doing one simply so there isn’t backup at their lane.

If her lane opened 20 seconds later, no harm no foul.
 
newbutoldtm said:
As in how backed up the lanes are and the death stare from guests...visually, not metaphorically.
Click to expand...

And in response to this I’d say you better get a spine.

I’m sure the cashier is more than aware of how it looks...especially if she’s been there awhile. Most cashiers are very aware of line length which is why some of them like to press the additional assistance button so often.
 
newbutoldtm said:
I'm a GSTL, fairly new to my store, and we were backed up and my cashier had turned her light off to do a RedCard app. I told her to turn her light on because it looked like we didn't have any lanes open on that side of the store...she literally shook her head at me and told me no. She was at the end of her RedCard app and literally turned it on 20 seconds later.
In hindsight, I really should've given her a PDD but we were extremely busy and I didn't have time to pull her aside and talk to her. It was last week so I feel like that ship has sailed. If she tells me no again though, I'm definitely going to give her a PDD for insubordination. After that, it will be a CCA, no questions asked. She's one of those that have been with the company for years...even though I'm new to the store, still have to follow my direction because I see things that you don't. Especially since I'll be the one getting yelled at if my ETL-GE comes up and sees that we're backed up and asking why her light is off. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

This sounds a bit too much like "RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!" rather than a reasonable reaction to this particular situation. If you're new to a store you might be better off talking with other leaders about conventions at the store before you start writing people up for things that may (as Anelmi noted) be part of the SOP at the store.

IMO, the concept of "insubordination" has no place in modern corporate culture, because of this. If you're in the military where insubordination can literally get people killed, that's one thing, but in a corporate culture that sort of black-and-white, blind respect for authority for authority's sake isn't terribly helpful. If a TM doesn't follow orders it could be because they're lazy and should be coached/CCA'd for not doing their job, not for insubordination. But it's hard to know if they're not following orders because they're lazy or if they didn't because the orders are stupid or counterproductive or they don't really know how but don't feel like they can ask or something like that, so leaders should be coaching and talking to TMs about why they're not doing as ordered to determine if they need more training or something like that or if they are just lazy and need to be performanced out.
 
You can challenge, you cannot decline to follow a reasonable request. That is how Target works. You're saying that a TM should be allowed to say no to their leader as long as they feel the request was 'stupid or counterproductive'. If the TM needs more information, they can ask. If they do not feel it is a reasonable request, they can challenge appropriately. Target is all about chain of command, look at the many layers of leaders we have. Telling your leader 'no' puts them in a position of appearing ineffective in leading and can only be met with followup. I'm not sure why you feel that's overly authoritative and not appropriate when it works the same literally everywhere else.
 
I'm not arguing that TMs shouldn't do what their leaders tell them to do--as I said in my post, if a TM isn't doing their job or has a shitty attitude, those are the things you should be coaching on, not that they were insubordinate. It may be semantics, but "insubordination" feels to me to be the type of thing invoked by leaders who can't really lead, but expect everyone to respect them simply because they are in a position of authority, and if one feels the need to write TMs up based on "insubordination" rather than more concrete performance issues, perhaps that person should take a look at their leadership skills.
 
anathema said:
You can challenge, you cannot decline to follow a reasonable request. That is how Target works. You're saying that a TM should be allowed to say no to their leader as long as they feel the request was 'stupid or counterproductive'. If the TM needs more information, they can ask. If they do not feel it is a reasonable request, they can challenge appropriately. Target is all about chain of command, look at the many layers of leaders we have. Telling your leader 'no' puts them in a position of appearing ineffective in leading and can only be met with followup. I'm not sure why you feel that's overly authoritative and not appropriate when it works the same literally everywhere else.
Click to expand...

Everywhere else as in Toys R Us?
 
Anelmi said:
You’d say it was off because she was doing a RC application. And that would be good enough for LOD bc RCs are gold. And it should be a more than acceptable reason for you to defend. Our cashiers are told to turn off their light when doing one simply so there isn’t backup at their lane.

If her lane opened 20 seconds later, no harm no foul.
Click to expand...

I agree. If anything you should have called for backup or hop on a lane yourself. Then coach the TM that day and be like this is what I need to you to do.
 
newbutoldtm said:
I'm a GSTL, fairly new to my store, and we were backed up and my cashier had turned her light off to do a RedCard app. I told her to turn her light on because it looked like we didn't have any lanes open on that side of the store...she literally shook her head at me and told me no. She was at the end of her RedCard app and literally turned it on 20 seconds later.
In hindsight, I really should've given her a PDD but we were extremely busy and I didn't have time to pull her aside and talk to her. It was last week so I feel like that ship has sailed. If she tells me no again though, I'm definitely going to give her a PDD for insubordination. After that, it will be a CCA, no questions asked. She's one of those that have been with the company for years...even though I'm new to the store, still have to follow my direction because I see things that you don't. Especially since I'll be the one getting yelled at if my ETL-GE comes up and sees that we're backed up and asking why her light is off. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...


By no means am I telling you how to do your job, but from my experience the cashier was correct in having their light off. It gives guests the sense of time when filling out the app, I would suggest you call for a backup and redirect guests to the opening lane and turn that light on. This way once the cashier doing the app is done they turn their light back on and you redirect other guests to that lane. Keeping a steady flow of traffic. But that is just what I did when I was up front!
 
HRbuddy said:
By no means am I telling you how to do your job, but from my experience the cashier was correct in having their light off. It gives guests the sense of time when filling out the app, I would suggest you call for a backup and redirect guests to the opening lane and turn that light on. This way once the cashier doing the app is done they turn their light back on and you redirect other guests to that lane. Keeping a steady flow of traffic. But that is just what I did when I was up front!
Click to expand...
Cashier was still in the wrong for flat out saying no. Did it make sense why she turned her light off? Yes, but she should have kept it on and then found her way to her GSTL to explain why she did it. Maybe the GSTL would have understood or maybe another solution would have been presented.
 
And maybe the guest would've felt rushed & cancelled the app mid-transaction.
I had a guest who was pissed about waiting behind an applicant so she pitched & moaned, telling the lady 'all the horrible stuff' about the red card & effectively talking the applicant out of it.
The bitch then smirked while I was ringing her up but the register crashed before we could finish the transaction.
Karma never wears a watch but she's always on time.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top