Archived is bike building difficult?

[bikebryan]

How much you rode makes no difference on the quality. The fact that you brag about a paint job costing 3x more than a whole is even more laughable. If you have enough knowledge, any bike you can last that long. Anyone who actually wants to "get out a really ride" (aka, french people in tight shorts) wouldn't go to walmart anyway. Your bike is made from the sames metals as the walmart bikes mate. For most people who want to get around town, or to school, a walmart bike is just fine. The only difference is who assembled it.

Says a person who is certainly NOT a bicyclist. Pick up any Target bike. Put it down. Pick up my bike. Put it down. You will IMMEDIATELY feel the difference in weight. High quality frames are NOT made of the "same metals" as a big box retail frame. They are made of materials that are much lighter but still as strong. They are more flexible. They are more comfortable to ride. They have higher quality components that make them run better.

Try going out on a 100-mile bicycle ride. After 25 miles, count how many retail store bikes you still see out there. After 50 that drops even more. By 60 miles, maybe 1% of the total bicycles out there are big box retail bikes. They simply do not provide the comfort needed for longer distances. They are also much heavier, meaning you have to put more effort to move them down the road than true road bikes.

My frame is now almost 26 years old. My father's is almost 30. Both are still in prime condition. I don't care how well you take care of a big box retail frame, 99% of them will be trash long before then. You simply CANNOT get a high quality frame at a big box retail store.

 

[Kompa]

That's your problem, you're assuming that everyone that wants a "bike" wants a rode bike, Which is not the case. People who want a Road Bike are in the minorty when it comes bikes, most people go after BMX, Kids, or Mountain Bikes. Those are just fine.

 

[commiecorvus]

Since they are my lifeline to the world I have two bikes.
One is a fat tire with a Salsa carbon fiber frame that I use in the winter and the other is a hybrid road/mountain bike.
I've never owned a regular road bike the conditions I ride under are just too messy.

I bought my kids bikes at a local bike shop and you know what the trick is even when you're broke as broke can be?
Go round back.
Just about every shop sells used bikes and they sell the good bikes.
The prices are going to be in the same range as the ones in Target but they are bikes you can pass down to your grand kids.

 

[Backroom81]

There's a bit of a disconnect here so let's clarify a couple of things:

1. The majority of people that buy bikes from Target are people that are only going to ride them once in a while through a park or kids that are getting to/from school. Bike shop quality parts aren't going to enhance their ride enough to pay the price.

2. Avid bikers that care about higher quality frames and components are not a big box retailer's target market. This actually applies for all of sporting goods. People serious about skateboarding don't buy the junk boards that Target sells, they go to an actual shop. People that play golf more than twice a year don't buy their clubs from Target. etc etc. Big box knows this so they don't try to sell the high end stuff that most people won't want to pay for.

For the majority of people looking to buy a bike, a big box retailer is perfectly fine as long as it's assembled correctly. I've done bike assembly a few times when our guy has to take time off. It's not hard at all but the training is non-existent. While our builder and I know how to do simple things like set the limits on the derailers, check that all gears shift correctly, check that the brakes clamp evenly, etc., but we have seen many many many bikes returned from other stores that look like their builder just slapped it together and put it out.

That's the real problem with big box retail bikes. If a retailer is going to assemble the bikes and market them as "ready to ride", they need to actually be ready to ride and shouldn't require adjustments as soon as you get home with it.

 

[bikebryan]

That's your problem, you're assuming that everyone that wants a "bike" wants a rode bike, Which is not the case. People who want a Road Bike are in the minorty when it comes bikes, most people go after BMX, Kids, or Mountain Bikes. Those are just fine.

Even off-road bikes from a reputable bike shop are going to be better. They will weigh less, be made of better materials, have much better components, will run better for longer, will be more comfortable, and will last longer.

I'm sorry but you shouldn't go down this road with me. I've been riding now for almost 30 years. I know volumes of information about this subject you probably never heard about. Things like proper frame fit, seat height, stem length and pitch, fork flare (or lack of it) and many other things. Do you know where your foot should be in relation to its placement on the pedal? I do. So please, let's just stop this argument. You feel the way you do and I get that (even though you are wrong).

 

[Backroom81]

Even off-road bikes from a reputable bike shop are going to be better. They will weigh less, be made of better materials, have much better components, will run better for longer, will be more comfortable, and will last longer.

I'm sorry but you shouldn't go down this road with me. I've been riding now for almost 30 years. I know volumes of information about this subject you probably never heard about. Things like proper frame fit, seat height, I do. So please, let's just stop this argument. You feel the way you do and I get that (even though you are wrong).

Again, disconnect between average user and enthusiast. Things like proper frame fit, stem length and pitch, fork flare (or lack of it) and many other things mean nothing to the average user. Your average user rides a bike to/from elementary school or in the park on the weekend and then it spends the rest of the time sitting in a garage or chained up.

No one is arguing that big box retailer bikes are superior in craftsmanship to bike shops. Of course the bike shops have better equipment but to the average user, the extra costs outweigh the added benefits.

Go round back. Just about every shop sells used bikes and they sell the good bikes.

The local bike shop by me only sells used bikes. Dude doesn't even bother to clean and paint them and still wants $500+. If I was a bike enthusiast, I would probably take the time to research the specific models he's selling and compare them to new prices and see if it's a good deal. As an average user, I see a dirty bike with an old chain (which tells me that there's a good chance he didn't put much into it).

My main job involves rebuilding industrial machinery. Shortly after I started, I asked the boss "Why paint it? Being mechanically sound should be what matters anyways." His response was "It could be a mechanical masterpiece but if it looks like shit, the people buying it are going to think that it's shit and the people operating it are going to treat it like shit and we'll get blamed for every breakdown that occurs because it LOOKS like we half assed it. We already strip it down to the frame and clean the old grime off when we start a rebuild, putting on a fresh coat of paint takes very little time and literally doubles the amount someone is willing to pay for it. Disreputable rebuilders and remodelers never skimp on the cosmetics because it covers up the real half assing."

 

[Kompa]

Even off-road bikes from a reputable bike shop are going to be better. They will weigh less, be made of better materials, have much better components, will run better for longer, will be more comfortable, and will last longer.

I'm sorry but you shouldn't go down this road with me. I've been riding now for almost 30 years. I know volumes of information about this subject you probably never heard about. Things like proper frame fit, seat height, stem length and pitch, fork flare (or lack of it) and many other things. Do you know where your foot should be in relation to its placement on the pedal? I do. So please, let's just stop this argument. You feel the way you do and I get that (even though you are wrong).

And none of that that matters because the local Walmart bike will get little Jimmy to school and back, and around town to his friends house just as a well a LBS bike.

There is no road, do you really think anyone cares where their foot "should" be in relation to the pedal? (The answer is no btw). I have a 3 mile commute to target and a Walmart bike get's me there just fine. Before that, I have a bike that looked like it never had maintence a day in it's life and it still got me there just fine. It's totally dependent on the bike. The stuff "that I probably never heard about" is stuff no one cares about when go to buy a walmart. You'd really suggest that a mom gets her 12 year old son a Bike that cost 4 times as much? You really think her son care's about proper foot placement?

Did you know that Target, Walmart and other big box stores account for almost more than 3/4 of total bike sales? You know why that is? It's because no one but bike enthusiast actually cares about that stuff. Little Jimmy will take his bike home, raise the seat and ride until he either gets a new one, or it breaks from no maintenance.

Walmart bikes don't simply stop working, and LBS bikes aren't immune to problems.

 

[bikebryan]

I'm responding the attitude from the comment "Your bike is made from the sames metals as the walmart bikes mate." The entire tone of that post is that a bike is a bike is a bike - and that is not true. In this arena, equipment makes a difference.

 

[Kompa]

It only makes a difference if you want it to. The expensive LBS bike will get you to school the same amount of times a Walmart bike does. All LBS bikes aren't custom made and hand welded with love and care. They're made in the same factory with the warmart bikes. Sure, some are custom, with better metal but the avarge person doesn't need that.

 

[commiecorvus]

Again, disconnect between average user and enthusiast. Things like proper frame fit, stem length and pitch, fork flare (or lack of it) and many other things mean nothing to the average user. Your average user rides a bike to/from elementary school or in the park on the weekend and then it spends the rest of the time sitting in a garage or chained up.

The local bike shop by me only sells used bikes. Dude doesn't even bother to clean and paint them and still wants $500+. If I was a bike enthusiast, I would probably take the time to research the specific models he's selling and compare them to new prices and see if it's a good deal. As an average user, I see a dirty bike with an old chain (which tells me that there's a good chance he didn't put much into it).

"

The thing about frame fit and stem length, how you set up you set up your bike in general can make the difference in hyper-extending your legs or damaging your back.
Having someone who knows those things set you up with a bike that fits you (especially if you are older and getting a bike to start exercising) is pretty important.

That's a shame about the bikes, my local shop takes real pride in selling used bikes that are every bit as good as the new ones.
They give them full tune ups and paint jobs if needed.
The prices are half to a third of the price of a new one.

And none of that that matters because the local Walmart bike will get little Jimmy to school and back, and around town to his friends house just as a well a LBS bike.

There is no road, do you really think anyone cares where their foot "should" be in relation to the pedal? (The answer is no btw). I have a 3 mile commute to target and a Walmart bike get's me there just fine. Before that, I have a bike that looked like it never had maintence a day in it's life and it still got me there just fine. It's totally dependent on the bike. The stuff "that I probably never heard about" is stuff no one cares about when go to buy a walmart. You'd really suggest that a mom gets her 12 year old son a Bike that cost 4 times as much? You really think her son care's about proper foot placement?

Did you know that Target, Walmart and other big box stores account for almost more than 3/4 of total bike sales? You know why that is? It's because no one but bike enthusiast actually cares about that stuff. Little Jimmy will take his bike home, raise the seat and ride until he either gets a new one, or it breaks from no maintenance.

Walmart bikes don't simply stop working, and LBS bikes aren't immune to problems.

Sure bikes from local stores have problems but the stores stand behind them.
You take them in, they fix them or replace them.

I bought my daughter her first bike at a local store and was able to pass it down to her sister (who promptly took a can of spray paint to iot because she didn't want people to know she had her sisters bike but that's sisters for you) and after that we gave it to another family.
I wanted a bike that wouldn't break and hurt my kid.
And to be honest I wanted one like what I had as a kid that held up and was solid.
We had bikes that you could jump off ramps, into lakes and still pass down to your little brother.
Those things were beasts.

 

[Kompa]

That's cool and I respect that. But most people these days don't want hand me downs (I know I didn't). Especially when bikes aren't terribly expensive from a big box store. As kids, we just wanted some cool and did what we wanted it to. My "fathers bike" isn't something I'd want to screw around town imo. I've riden bikes pretty hard when I was younger, all from big box stores. None of them broke as a far as factory defect was concerned. At most, my break lines wore and I just ended up cutting them. Other than that, there were flat tires, which every bike, no matter how much it cost is going to get eventually. These problems I assume Bikebryan is talking about like bent spokes, snapped frames and such don't happen on warmart bikes. You'd need to freeze your bike and then ride if of a mountain for that to happen. Sure, there are some outliers, but if this was really a problem, these stores wouldn't be able to sell bikes anymore due to lawsuits and they'd need to step up quality

 

[commiecorvus]

.You'd need to freeze your bike and then ride if of a mountain for that to happen.

I live in Alaska.
That's normal life around here.

 

[rns0504]

Back on topic...

Theres a difference between assembling bikes and tuning a bike for sale. Any idiot can assemble a bike reasonable quickly but they would never have met my standards for quality.

Being a mechanical engineer (I quit target shortly after graduating), I took pride in the quality of assembly and did thorough testing on each one to go on the floor, taking them outside to the loading dock to ride for a few minutes each. I didnt let anyone else in the area, brought my own tools, etc. I had next to ZERO repairs/returns, the ones that did come in were due to major guest abuse and guest services taking back stuff they never should have...

Just depends on how mechanically inclined you are and how much you will enjoy it. I would go as far as truing and straightening wheels to make the product better for guests, while still having the best speed of any previous assembler just because I enjoyed the work and was naturally efficient at it.

 

[Sadie]

Thanks a ton for all the replies! I haven't done any training yet, but I think I'll go for it. Although ill think twice about ever buying a bike from tarje now lol

 

[hack15]

Quick question... where within the store you guys work in is your bike assembler's work space???

 

[Produce Queen]

Ours is back near recieving. Behind the PMT's office.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

Our bike building is in same place.

 

[SFSFun]

Ours is in the corner of the 4th bulk steel aisle. It is a shared space with the Signing TM.

 

[Kompa]

Ours is in the corner of the 4th bulk steel aisle. It is a shared space with the Signing TM.

this

 

[Ringwraith917]

Way back in the corner of the stockroom. It's a dedicated space all my own.

 

[Loki]

Ours is in the back right next to ship from store. I have put together many bikes and I get to shoot the shit with everyone in the backroom.

 

[melvin]

Welds and frames of any quality can still break. Rubber's can be upgraded. Who they are made by, is really irrelvant since you can just upgrade to something even better than the LBS. I'm not going to pretend that I know more about bikes than you. I probably don't, iirc, you're twice my age so you obviously have more experience. But as an avid mountain biker, and BMXer, how the bike is assembled is more imporant than where it comes from in the case of stores. If you know anything about bikes, it's usually better, cheaper, and more efficient for the average person to buy the DS bike.

Now if you have 1k to drop on a bike, and go for the LBS.

While the frame is important, the biggest difference are the absolute crap components on department store bikes. They are absolute junk and will not last or function for nearly as long as a decent bike.

I will actually agree that if you are someone who will ride a bike once a week, you may as well just get a department store bike. However, let's say you're a college freshman looking for a bike that will last for the remainder of college and perhaps beyond, go to a bike shop. You can get a decent hybrid bike for $500 that will last far longer than the junk you get at a place like Target or Walmart.

Plus, the added bonus of going to a shop is that they will make sure your seat isn't a foot too low. That seems to be a requirement with people who buy department store bikes.

 

[Redzee]

Aaand that's why I tell people to never buy a bike at a store like Target or Walmart.

You want to buy a bike go to a bike shop where everyone knows bikes and how to take care of them.
When the bikes are put together they are done to spec, by professionals, who will back up their work.
And you support local business.

I'm sorry, bit off track there...
kinda of a pet peeve.

Nobody look at the crazy man.

Got great service at my local bike store. Spent a little more and got a good second hand bike, previously owned by some guy named named Armstrong. 1985ish.

 

[unknown]

How does Target insulate itself from assembly that goes wrong and causes harm? Is it just "let the buyer beware?"
Surely someone has gotten hurt and tried to sue Target.

 

[mrknownothing]

Quick question... where within the store you guys work in is your bike assembler's work space???

Our bike builder sets up shop behind the line in the receiving side of the stockroom.