Archived Need advice regarding something that happened between my TL and I

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stupid rules said:
The TL was wrong and there is no other way to look at it. The TL must take ownership of the problem and be accountable, that way she gets the respect she deserves. Seeing as condoning work off of the clock is grounds for termination there can only be 1 solution, you don't get a CA for this. So to avoid being branded as a child the OP should demonstrate courage, challenge upwards and communicate effectively by going to HR. (Is that enough Target lingo for you? I can do it too!)

By the way you are using demonstrates accountability wrong and trying to use it as an example to completely ignore the rules the TL broke make you appear ignorant.
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You seem to ignore the fact that the TM is also in the wrong, and 2 wrongs don't make a right. You should learn how to be accountable for your OWN actions, and stop worrying about other people. Just because the OP's TL didn't follow best practice doesn't mean that he shouldn't apologize for his mistake.

Yes the TL did overstep their bounds a little bit, but if it were me I would let it slide the first time, and communicate that with the TL in question. If the TL continues to be a problem I would go to HR.

Example:

"Hey ______ I'm sorry for leaving without saying anything the other night. I should have let you know that I was supposed to leave at 4:30 and was unable to finish. However, in the future I would like it if I didn't get text messaged regarding work while I am off the clock."


Regardless of how the OP resolves his problem with the TL's text messaging, he should at least show accountability for his mistake.
 
Honestly, the way I see it is talk to the TL first.

What I think everyone is ignoring is the fact that the TM gave the TL the phone number for "emergency" WORK matters. What is the difference if the TL texts to in essence say "You failed to communicate to me" or if she texts saying "Hey just wanted to let you know the freezers went down and I was wondering if you would have any ideas to help us not lose the inventory"

Yes, the TL was wrong. But if the TM is condoning being contacted for off the clock emergencies, there will be trouble with HR.

Honestly, for the best interests of the TM, just go talk to the TL first. If she yells and threatens you again, go to HR. At this juncture, knowing many store's HR's, you will end up with nothing but drama and aggravation when the TL gets talked to and has a grudge.
 
As a TL myself I know your TL was wrong on contacting you. She was wrong in accusing you with out an explanation. You have all right to explain why the task wasnt finished without being yelled at. If I were her I would be more concerned in my own actions rather than what you didn't do. You don't have to apologize to her. What you should do is go to your HR tell them about her contacting you off the clock. Explain the communication issue and tell HR how you will make an effort to make communication a priority. You will be done with that issue but your TL is in deep poop for contacting you when you are off the clock.
 
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Yramlvstarbucks said:
As a TL myself I know your TL was wrong on contacting you. She was wrong in accusing you with out an explanation. You have all right to explain why the task wasnt finished without being yelled at. If I were her I would be more concerned in my own actions rather than what you didn't do. You don't have to apologize to her. What you should do is go to your HR tell them about her contacting you off the clock. Explain the communication issue and tell HR how you will make an effort to make communication a priority. You will be done with that issue but your TL is in deep poop for contacting you when you are off the clock.
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The TM made his cell number available to that TL though, so he was somewhat condoning being texted off the clock.. Going to HR won't accomplish anything at this point.

Having resolved all my interpersonal problems in life directly with the other person, I can say from experience that the outcomes are almost always positive.
 
Imerzan said:
You seem to ignore the fact that the TM is also in the wrong, and 2 wrongs don't make a right. You should learn how to be accountable for your OWN actions, and stop worrying about other people. Just because the OP's TL didn't follow best practice doesn't mean that he shouldn't apologize for his mistake.

Yes the TL did overstep their bounds a little bit, but if it were me I would let it slide the first time, and communicate that with the TL in question. If the TL continues to be a problem I would go to HR.
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First of all do not speak to me like I am a child and suggesting I become accountable for my own actions and not worry about others. See in a leadership role, which I am in by the way, it is my job to worry with the actions of myself as well as others and when I see someone doing something that is 100% wrong I correct it. We can go back and forth on demonstrating accountability but the fact remains the TL broke a rule she can be fired for.

The OP can go in tomorrow and get his documented coaching or CA for not completing his tasks or communicating it to the TL. I have not commented on that because it's a completely different issue.

BTW maybe he gave her the number so that they could contact him in case a shift opens up.
 
Imerzan said:
The TM made his cell number available to that TL though, so he was somewhat condoning being texted off the clock.. Going to HR won't accomplish anything at this point.

Having resolved all my interpersonal problems in life directly with the other person, I can say from experience that the outcomes are almost always positive.
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1.) Giving the store/TL his phone number is not condoning being texted off the clock. It is for emergencies/communicating shift information only. The moment she texted him about his work, she reopened the work relationship. Target is now obligated to pay him for that time he spent looking at that text because the communication falls outside of the agreement.

2.) As soon as she sent that text, she obligated Target to a number of actions and not least was payment for his time with the text and cost of said text. If she is not brought back under control then this could get very expensive for Target later on. The submitter of this thread not only go to HR with this, he is morally and ethically obligated to by his agreement to work there.

3.) Personal responsibility is a two way street. Target and the TL have a responsibility to communicate properly with the team member and maintain a "fast, fun, and friendly" working relationship (Stop laughing!). If they do not keep their end of the agreement, then they are in breech of the contract they signed with the team member. Believe you me, breaking that contract is hellaciously expensive. The team member said they would try to get it done and couldn't. As far as the responsibility issue is concerned, they are covered. The TL has the responsibility to not only designate the work but to designate it in a matter that is appropriate. If they are dumping a load of work on team members that cannot handle it, it is not the team member's fault because they do not have the tools to properly judge workload. Whining about personal responsibility when it is clearly not their fault is merely deflecting the issue.

That said...

Here's what I would do:
  1. Print the text out on 8x11 paper
  2. Fold it in half
  3. Write on the outside "Some damn fool sent this to me with your name on it," and leave it in her box
  4. She brings it up, just give her the gist of the of this thread.
I don't recommend that for everbody...
 
stupid rules said:
First of all do not speak to me like I am a child and suggesting I become accountable for my own actions and not worry about others. See in a leadership role, which I am in by the way, it is my job to worry with the actions of myself as well as others and when I see someone doing something that is 100% wrong I correct it. We can go back and forth on demonstrating accountability but the fact remains the TL broke a rule she can be fired for.

The OP can go in tomorrow and get his documented coaching or CA for not completing his tasks or communicating it to the TL. I have not commented on that because it's a completely different issue.

BTW maybe he gave her the number so that they could contact him in case a shift opens up.
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Correct, as a team leader you are to hold your team accountable, as well as yourself. As a team member you are expected to hold yourself accountable.

The OPs TL was holding him accountable for his actions, but was breaking a rule while doing so.

Consequences should be a last resort, but you seem to think that they should be executed swiftly and harshly.

People like positive outcomes from interpersonal conflict. The best way to achieve this is direct communication. Going behind soemone's back will make the other person defensive/fight back. If the TL does not get fired (most likely won't) the OP's relationship with that TL will only get worse. Same goes if the TL does actually get in trouble. The OP will have to decide whats in his best interests I suppose.
 
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I would like to thank OP for starting the most interesting thread i have seen on here since the... move? reboot?
That being said, I would hate to work for someone who called/text me everytime I didn't finish something. The way stores are staffed these days, of course things aren't going to get done on time every time. Maybe the TL can take this lapse of judgement and use it as a learning experience. Maybe the TL can apply this new knowledge at Wal-Mart or Kohls.
If you bring this up to the TL only, they won't learn anything.
 
Pfreshbackroomguy said:
Actually I said i'd try to get it done. Meaning if I could get it done before my shift ended, i would.

As the majority of you who have replied to this thread know target rules. Everyone working at target knows talking or working off the clock is a BIG NO NO. When a manager attempts to communicate with a team member about something that happened at work while the TM is off the clock, the TL should have written down what happened and talked to the TM when they saw the TM next. In my case, that didnt happen. She sent texts messages to me off the clock about work and threaten to coach me while i was off the clock. She broke many rules. Some mis communication doesn't justify breaking rules. If that was the case, we'd all be a poop storm.


I forgot to mention something, I was working under logistics in the "logistics zone" work center. Our store puts the backroom and flow team members under LZ when we are working in the backroom p fresh or pushing the p fresh truck. Now technically on paper, she isnt my team lead. My work center is under "backroom day", there is no official job title for what I do. Now my ETL logistics expected me to backstock all my our truck before i left (and I did). I dont mind helping the p fresh sales floor when i am done but she as a TL in our area, should know that we need to backstock our truck the day we get it.

That is all for tonight for me. I have to open p fresh on Sunday for the very first time knowing there will be no mid shift for us since we are short handed. I have a long day ahead of me. Talk to everyone later. Thanks for all your adivce, it means a lot to me :-D
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this thread hurts my brain. so many silly mistakes on both parts. i think i would put you both on final warning and be done with it.

all the tl has to do to avoid termination is show ANY OTHER time you texted the tl, on any social network available, and say that it was a conversation between friends to muddle the line. it's still working off the clock, i'm not arguing that, however, it will distort things to the point you will both be in hot water (this from personal experience with a gstl/cashier). you voluntarily gave up your number. that is a huge no no. only hr/stl is supposed to have access via workbench. another muddling point. our stl sends texts to us all the time, she would just laugh if we tried this. our dtl knows it. this could go either way depending on your store and attorney involvement.

the tl should not have responded in that tone. thats a coaching for communicating effectively. but just a coaching. in combo with the off the clock part, could still go termination... or not. you can't convey threatening tone in a text. it's all speculation. it could open up an investigation for harassment.

you should be coached for commuicating effectively and accountability. you don't leave your shift without following up with your team. the part that really bothers me about this is that you say "technically" you aren't in that work center. FYI... any tl in the building is your direct supervisor, regardless of the workcenter. maybe your store is in a larger volume where this isn't spoken about due to the plethora of available tm, but if you look at your core roles or the tl core roles it will outline this fact for you. i would be ticked off just because talking on the walkie takes five seconds. sounds to me like you knew you were leaving, didnt wanna deal with your PITA tl, and ducked out. made the tl mad. tl responded inappropriately and off the clock through tools you authorized. i would go to hr, but i would talk to the tl first. you owe them an apology. they owe you one. then you both need to go to hr to discuss the situation together. IMO.
 
Ok lets try and get a grip on things. We have two issues here one minor, the ops failure to complete a minor task. This could lead to a coaching at worst. The second issue is a TL coaching a TM by text while they are off the clock. This is a major issue that could result in termination. The second as anyone in leadership at Target knows is a huge issue. It puts Target under threat of lawsuits. You have to report this to your HR. I am not saying you should, I am saying you have to. If you are aware of someone violating policy that places Target under threat of legal action and do not report it you will be held just as accountable as the party that did so.
 
Ok, I fail to see how anyone could make a big deal about a text msg sent 3 minutes after you clocked out, without there being preconceived dislike towards said TL. How do you know that SHE knew you were off the clock? You left without saying anything, for crying out loud you could have been ANYWHERE in the store! This will make your case difficult.

Christ, if you want to create a dramafest, go ahead and go to HR. If you really do hate that TL for telling you to do your job, I guess I don't know what to say. Man up a bit maybe? (sounds like your dad thinks the same thing)

My dad says I should tell her tomorrow that I should have said "Sorry about yesterday. When you approached me, I didnt think to say that 'I have to go. I'll clean it tomorrow' and see how that goes. I tried to explain to him about how sending a text off the clock was wrong but my dad focused on what i did wrong and not what she did wrong.
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^^ good advice
 
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I don't understand why everyone assumes this would be an automatic coaching for you. A good TL would first seek to understand what happened. After she finds out the details then she could go to coaching for failure to communicate. Or she could use it as a teaching moment and offer some suggestions on how it could be handled better if there is a next time.There is no excuse, absolutely no excuse for a TL to text or post work related threats to a team member. Even if the TL was in the building and on the clock a message like this should never be sent on their phone. Why would a good TL be using cell phones to communicate with you while you are on the clock? If Target starts to allow this kind of communication on the salesfloor they will become responsible for any damage to team members cell phones that happen in the course of business. That is a road they do not want to go down. If this TL could not locate a team member in the store with the use of a walkie, then they have no business being a TL. We have all heard a walkie page like "Is anyone around Sallysue or seen her?" As I said no excuse.Of course you should go to HR with this. There is no question. Then a good HR will seek to understand the thought process of the TL. The HR will take the time to explain what it means to "work off the clock" and remind the TL that we do not participate in this not even "a little bit".
 
tellmeaboutatime said:
I don't understand why everyone assumes this would be an automatic coaching for you. A good TL would first seek to understand what happened. After she finds out the details then she could go to coaching for failure to communicate. Or she could use it as a teaching moment and offer some suggestions on how it could be handled better if there is a next time.There is no excuse, absolutely no excuse for a TL to text or post work related threats to a team member. Even if the TL was in the building and on the clock a message like this should never be sent on their phone. Why would a good TL be using cell phones to communicate with you while you are on the clock? If Target starts to allow this kind of communication on the salesfloor they will become responsible for any damage to team members cell phones that happen in the course of business. That is a road they do not want to go down. If this TL could not locate a team member in the store with the use of a walkie, then they have no business being a TL. We have all heard a walkie page like "Is anyone around Sallysue or seen her?" As I said no excuse.Of course you should go to HR with this. There is no question. Then a good HR will seek to understand the thought process of the TL. The HR will take the time to explain what it means to "work off the clock" and remind the TL that we do not participate in this not even "a little bit".
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That being said, the cellphone use is still in the gray area, and the TL could just say they didnt know ____ was off the clock. They might just get coached for using cellphone during work (from what I hear, its OKAY at some stores?)

I'm not sure why you think starting a dramafest with HR is the best way to resolve this. The OP can most likely just discuss this problem with his TL, and avoid the drama alltogether. When I have problems with MY Team Leads (serious or not), I go to them FIRST. My Team Leads are also FAR from perfect, and have done some questionable things in the past. However after talking with them about it we were able to move past the problems (and make corrections where needed), and we have mutual respect. I am quite sure if I snitched to HR about them every time, they would be less than thrilled with me (with reason, considering they were happy to address my concerns personally). Please don't say that "omg this is serious and he has to go to HR FIRST", the OP is only mad because he got called out on his ************up. Grow a pair and learn something from this situation.
 
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This thread is hilarious. I hope the OP keeps us updated, all the way to the TL (hopefully) getting fired. Moronic TLs like that, (and any ETLs or higher that would be stupid enough to do something similar), need to be removed from Target management positions, ASAP. I have no problem with TMs being dumbasses, you get want you hire there, but TLs should have some intelligence and knowledge of the rules.
 
I have a hard time believing all this. I don't know how others are failing to see this, but the details in OP's story seem to change every time he posts.

Honestly, either way this won't end well. Either you go to HR and tell them, TL gets fired, TL's friends that are also TL find out you caused it, and you get put on the troublemaker list and are slowly forced out the door. OR you go to HR, TL gets a coaching, TL is pissed and slowly forces you out the door. The best thing you can do is just go to the TL at this point as any other situation is going to get you in a whole mess. Sure, company policy is policy, but how often do they actually enforce it? Do you honestly think that your HR is going to fire the TL and all your problems will be gone?
 
Imerzan said:
Ok, I fail to see how anyone could make a big deal about a text msg sent 3 minutes after you clocked out, without there being preconceived dislike towards said TL. How do you know that SHE knew you were off the clock? You left without saying anything, for crying out loud you could have been ANYWHERE in the store! This will make your case difficult.
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"Honestly, either way this won't end well. Either you go to HR and tell them, TL gets fired, TL's friends that are also TL find out you caused it, and you get put on the troublemaker list and are slowly forced out the door. OR you go to HR, TL gets a coaching, TL is pissed and slowly forces you out the door. The best thing you can do is just go to the TL at this point as any other situation is going to get you in a whole mess. Sure, company policy is policy, but how often do they actually enforce it? Do you honestly think that your HR is going to fire the TL and all your problems will be gone? "

Okay, that's it. You changed my mind. The TL was absolutely correct and OP should get down on his knees and thank the based god that he gets to bask in the magnificent glow that is his TLs management skill.
:facepalm:
 
The OP doesn't need to get on his knees to the TL...

He just needs to apologize for what he did.

AND if he had a problem with the texting he needs to make that known DIRECTLY to the offending TL FIRST. If the TL is smart they won't have it happen again and everyone is happy. If the TL continues to do it, then the OP can go to HR.


greatteam said:
I have a hard time believing all this. I don't know how others are failing to see this, but the details in OP's story seem to change every time he posts.

Honestly, either way this won't end well. Either you go to HR and tell them, TL gets fired, TL's friends that are also TL find out you caused it, and you get put on the troublemaker list and are slowly forced out the door. OR you go to HR, TL gets a coaching, TL is pissed and slowly forces you out the door. The best thing you can do is just go to the TL at this point as any other situation is going to get you in a whole mess. Sure, company policy is policy, but how often do they actually enforce it? Do you honestly think that your HR is going to fire the TL and all your problems will be gone?
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Sums it up quite well.
 
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Hmmm, now we have some more details.
My suggestion is for the OP is talk to etl-log first & give heads up on the events. Then talk to the ctl & say you're sorry for the mistake.
Learn from this event & communicate w/ctl or etl on tasks.
On the text thing, save it or print it out for later use for hr.
 
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Hardlinesmaster said:
Hmmm, now we some more details.
My suggestion is for the OP is talk to etl-log first & give heads up on the events. Then talk to the ctl & say you're sorry for the mistake.
Learn from this event & communicate w/ctl or etl on tasks.
On the text thing, save it or print it out for later use for hr.
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great advice 😀 gtc to you
 
Imz, it was you who help the op by giving options, other than policy.
Remember we do have to work as team & resolve our differences with each other & mgt.
P-fresh is a hard area to manage & to keep good workers. It's based on a big team effort with a small group of folks.
Imz, the gtc really goes to you. You will become a leader before you know it.
 
Pfreshbackroomguy said:
hardlines master: There is no doubt i take blame for the lack of communication. But as you all know, she had no right to text me aka coaching me while i am off the clock. Our p fresh store has been open since the middle of oct of last year. I joined in the backroom pfresh in middle of nov of last year. I joined the sales floor along with the backroom p fresh in January.

I understand why she is mad. I do. Like you all said, she should know the rules and not texted me whatsoever. She should have talked to me the next time she saw me. If I just told her before I clock out that "I have to go. I'll clean it tomorrow" I wouldnt be in this mess. However, i rushed my self towards the end of my shift and wasnt thinking straigght when she talked to me.

My dad says I should tell her tomorrow that I should have said "Sorry about yesterday. When you approached me, I didnt think to say that 'I have to go. I'll clean it tomorrow' and see how that goes. I tried to explain to him about how sending a text off the clock was wrong but my dad focused on what i did wrong and not what she did wrong.

I cant see my ETL HR or my STl tomorrow because they have the weekend off. I have no choice but to wait until Wednesday to deal with this when my etl hr is in again (i have monday and tuesday off).
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Your dad is saying that because if you would have told her before you left that you didn't finish, then this whole situation would have been avoided.

I'm just baffled that you didn't inform her. No reason not to say on the walkie that you couldn't finish and have to clock out, take 10 seconds. All the team members I've witness who haven't finished a job inform others, it's common sense.
 
Imerzan said:
Ok, I fail to see how anyone could make a big deal about a text msg sent 3 minutes after you clocked out, without there being preconceived dislike towards said TL. How do you know that SHE knew you were off the clock? You left without saying anything, for crying out loud you could have been ANYWHERE in the store! This will make your case difficult.

Christ, if you want to create a dramafest, go ahead and go to HR. If you really do hate that TL for telling you to do your job, I guess I don't know what to say. Man up a bit maybe? (sounds like your dad thinks the same thing)


^^ good advice
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The TL would not be texting someone on the clock they would use a walkie. This TL is making Target a target for legal action. This TM knows that a core policy that is enforced to protect Target has been violated. If he does not report it he is in the wrong and could be held accountable. He does not have an option of ignoring it. Period.
 
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