New vacation policy?
- Thread starter Deadbydawn
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Annoying that I'll lose 4 days of vacation a year.
The pay instead is a joke, you just get bent over by the irs.
I'll probly get a hundred bucks take home ID rather have more time away from the hell hole
The pay instead is a joke, you just get bent over by the irs.
I'll probly get a hundred bucks take home ID rather have more time away from the hell hole
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The idea that you will “get bent by the irs” is a farce. At the very least your refund will be higher.
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ManMythMachine
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A keys... No Labor Day Mondays banked. No Memorial Day Mondays banked. No Independence Day is on Monday this year banked. No Juneteenth is on Sunday this year banked. No New Years Day is on Saturday this year banked. Gone all gone.
I feel bad for you too B keys. You did have Thanksgiving. But A keys; we had like a whole festivus of BANK. ALL GONE NOW GO BYE BYE. I feel like poor old Uncle Billy after losing eight thousand bucks and all I have to show for it is a knotted string on my finger and a yet to be stuffed squirrel on my shoulder. So sad.
I knew this shift differential raise would come back to bite our collective asses!
NOT A FINGA !!!
ManMythMachine
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Five actually, but who's counting? Or did I just...
Hold that thought.
Remember on holidays how we never had to worry about getting enough people to show up? Like Thanksgiving week we knew it is one of the busiest weeks but on Thanksgiving itself everyone would show up to get that sweet sweet bank? At least half a day. You'd see that one guy who you thought died because they were LOA for two years but here they are, at start-up, ready to bank that holiday. Welp, NOT ANYMORE! Now it will be tons of call outs. Same as any other day. Good planning Spotty. YOU RUINED IT! Double mandatory OT because without banking vacay incentive, it will all go down the mezz trash tubes into the dumpsters.
But who's counting?
ManMythMachine
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I doubt it. PH accrues very slowly. about .93 for 36 hours worked. So in a full year, even with a ton of overtime, I usally only amass about 5 days of PH.
The banked vacation on holidays accounts for more. Spot probably did this so it can cut down on the amount of vacation time people have overall. Some people use any time they have right away. I usually sit here with about one hundred plus vacation hours of hoarded vacation time and look down on my fellow vacation bankrupt team members like Mister Potter taking over the bank in Bedford Falls. "Because they're panicking and I'm not." - George Bailey
I look at it this way. I only work 3 days week. I have off more days than I work. It's like semi-retirement. So unless I'm going somewhere I don't use my vacation. Or if it hits so high it stops accruing... um yeah, then I use it!
I'd probably cash out some but it's not allowed.
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Yep, you're one of THOSE guys. You actually like coming to work. I have a coworker that hordes vacation like he's mr scrooge. Always cackling gleefully about it. Truth be told he loves coming to work at target, so why would he take vacation? Gets on my nerves TBH. He usually ends up only using it to backfill. Like he's gotten soft so he took a injury LOA and he just backfilled up to 100% pay for like 6 months (since they only pay 75% or whatever it is).
You are so right about 36 hrs and being off so much. Wish I could get back in that mindset.
Anyways I asked a HR guy about this today. He claims we do not lose any PH hours, and we get 2.5x pay on holidays. Best case scenario basically IMO, because both were honestly in question IMO. I thought it was possible our PH days would go poof, and we would only get 1.5X pay on holiday.
Although I still think we do, because he said we get X weeks vacation, which my 4 days PH on the A keys being replaced by 3 days vaca means I lose a day, I did not press him on that. Still, IFFFF what he said is true my worst fears and some of the ones being thrown around here by people who like to be negative (like that we are just losing all PH hours period replaced by nothing) are untrue.
It seems we wont know EXACTLY how it works til it gets here, which is crappy, but so far so good.
Also I noticed HR has a flyer available that has wording stating you can find the details and FAQ on targerpayandbefits.com under timeoff, which I was very interested to look at. However no such details or FAQ currently exists on that page that I could find. I assume that's coming later, but another target "oopsie" moment.
Nonetheless having put that positive spin on it, losing banked holiday vaca hours is a pretty big blow in a way. Like I said though if you budget or just have a constant buffer in the bank, you can just increase the amount of VNS you take over the year and it works the same. Every extra 12 hours holiday pay you receive is 12 hrs you can allow yourself to VNS later and still get essentially paid for, so it can equal the same amount of time off for the year as you received when you could bank, you just manage it yourself (provided of course VNS is available over the yr, which in my dept/key/building is usually not a problem as we usually do the hit plan>send the willing home thing even in our busiest times). Of course the drawback is you cannot preplan this time off it has to be ad hoc VNS, which I agree is a pretty big drawback.
The other thing is while this yr seems safe, I have to wonder if this opens up further vaca related reductions in the future. For example this yr has already started so they could not take away PH hours essentially already promised too us. In the future years though I feel like they could as long as they give notice.
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Your ph accrues at the same rate every week no matter how many hours you work. There is no way you amass 5 in a year. The most you can get in a year is 4 and that is when you have been with the company 5-25+ years. Your vacation accrual is dependent on hours worked.
You're actually going to accrue more vacation time now. So basically if you were accruing 2.5 hours of vacation (purely an example) and .5 hours of PH working your regular schedule you now earn 3 hours of vacation and the total bucket is a combo of what your vacation and PH were separately.
So if you normally earned 120 vacation and 36 PH you now earn 156 a year and the max accrual is a combo of the two.
I don't care for the change but industry wide most companies do PTO in one bucket (Walmart for example). My buddy use to look at me weird when I told him I have two buckets of vacation.
So if you normally earned 120 vacation and 36 PH you now earn 156 a year and the max accrual is a combo of the two.
I don't care for the change but industry wide most companies do PTO in one bucket (Walmart for example). My buddy use to look at me weird when I told him I have two buckets of vacation.
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I’ve seen a document on pay and benefits and you do lose well being hours. But it seems that you only lose them if you get to a new service anniversary (5/10/25 years) or shift change. Otherwise you stay in the “legacy accrual plan”.
Basically what I've learned this weekend is all us current TMs are going to continue to accrue at our current rates (minus the 4 hours of well being) until we hit one of the 5/10/25 milestones. The difference is the pH hours will now be vacation. So no more using pH to get OT money.
The biggest difference (once you hit the milestone and enter the new plan) will only affect the A keys. The accrual rate is based off what it takes to hit Max vacation (112 hours for 0-5 years for example) if you average 40 hrs/week. So while the B keys will hit 112 with no OT, the A keys will only hit 100ish hours if they only average 36. Since they no longer accrue PH at a higher rate than the B keys do.
The biggest difference (once you hit the milestone and enter the new plan) will only affect the A keys. The accrual rate is based off what it takes to hit Max vacation (112 hours for 0-5 years for example) if you average 40 hrs/week. So while the B keys will hit 112 with no OT, the A keys will only hit 100ish hours if they only average 36. Since they no longer accrue PH at a higher rate than the B keys do.
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Has anyone been told (by someone who isn’t guessing) that this takes effect at milestones? To me, a “service anniversary” happens every year, regardless if it’s a 7th or a 10th.
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Yeah its the same amount of hours But its not the same amount of pay. you lose all PH benefits theres mandatory 9/12 months a year and PH it the only way to secure those hours when you take a vacation now you get to work an extra day before vacation and only get paid your normal rate for it. This would only be fair if they allowed taking vacation and not using vacation hours
Yes we specifically asked and our OM got clarification from HR yesterday that it's a milestone and not your next yearly anniversary.
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Yeah, a "service anniversary" happens every year. That some people were told otherwise isn't 100% proof. As usual just lots of hearsay. But I'm willing to go with it since I believe multiple people are saying it.
Luck
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Thats great! Execept this year is my 5 anyway. Whoohoo...
ManMythMachine
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Learn something new every day! I guess I never did have more than 48 hours PH. Makes sense it stays the same. But now since PH will roll into VAC hours I guess none of us have to worry about it. Thanks Spot!
While they say they are streamlining I get the feeling they are steamrolling. Right over our vacation loving souls. It falls into line that since no one can bank vacation for the holiday it will cut down on people having more vacation time overall and add more working hours into THEIR bucket. Even if we get 2 or 2.5 times pay while working on the holiday; it's still better for them than letting us bank and use it whenever. For planning and budget purposes this is a big win for Spot.
Like they say in Full Metal Jacket, "God plays his games and we play ours."
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Yep they are taking away DC vacation time so they can give it to Store TM instead of taking out of Brian Cornels 19 mil salary to give them proper vacation hours
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None of this makes any sense lol. we dont earn 112 hours we earn (0-5 yrs) 2X36=72 on A keys. On B keys you earn 2X40=80. Neither number is equal 112. Basically no combo of anything gets you to the numbers 112 (except including well being time plus PH time to A key, but no combo for B key which is what you mention). or "100ish"
PH and well being time are going away. The new 112 Max annual hours of vacation is indeed 72vac+36ph+4wb. That standard is the official number for everyone now. Technically the B keys should get 80+30+4 for 114 hours so they're losing 2.
The "100ish" comes from the new vacation per hour accrual rates.
Currently A keys earn just under .058 vac+ph hours for every hour worked (if they work all 36 hours and no OT). The new accrual rate is .0538something vac hours for every hour worked. That number X 40 hours per week X 52 weeks per year = 112 hours of vacation on the B keys. That number multiplied by only 36 hours per week on the A keys only comes out to 100.7ish hours of vacation for the year. So the A keys will have to work 23 days of OT to have a chance to get their full vacation benefit. Mostly effects merit people who work very limited OT.
Does that make more sense?
The "100ish" comes from the new vacation per hour accrual rates.
Currently A keys earn just under .058 vac+ph hours for every hour worked (if they work all 36 hours and no OT). The new accrual rate is .0538something vac hours for every hour worked. That number X 40 hours per week X 52 weeks per year = 112 hours of vacation on the B keys. That number multiplied by only 36 hours per week on the A keys only comes out to 100.7ish hours of vacation for the year. So the A keys will have to work 23 days of OT to have a chance to get their full vacation benefit. Mostly effects merit people who work very limited OT.
Does that make more sense?
BullseyeBabe
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I thought the max vacation hours were. I have a little under 300. So are you saying I won’t start accruing vacation time until I get down to 112 hours?
Are you under 5 years? I feel like you're probably past that so it would be a different number for you.
Max you can earn in a year will be 112 but the total you could have before you stop accruing will be around 160. Currently it's complicated with the hours from banked holidays but that won't be the case in the future.
If you have 300 hours right now are you ever gonna take it all? It might not matter if you stop accruing for a while lol
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maybe sorta... You said 112 was for the B keys, but it only adds up for the A keys old method, not B key any method. And why would they use A key old number as the new base for anything? B key is the larger more fundamental keys.
Target gives employees weeks of vacation and days of ph, not any other method, so I kind of doubt they're just randomly changing that now. So they are going to tell B1 <5 yrs "you get 11 days and a little more" or "11.2 days" vacation? It just seems an odd complication vs "you get x weeks of vac per yr" or X days of PH per yr.
If what you say is true we just took a significant hit to our annual accrual. I'd like a real source for that. My HR guy claimed we lose nothing vs the old method for example (yeah I trust that as far as I can throw it but anyway)
Also as an oldy, what are the new hourly accrual numbers for 10+ and 20+ years seniority according to your source? Do you have that?
I'd like to know where you learned these very exact specifics anyway.
If this is true thats nearly a 10% hit to Vac+PH, plus losing maybe like 5 more days of holiday bank. Ouch. Too be fair at my building I can make most of the banked holiday vac loss back by just taking more VNS with the overall annual pay not changing, but, as I keep noting, VNS isn't as good as vac.