Archived Target Waffles on Guns in Stores

[paidtosmile]

Question for all the posters on this thread.

Have any of you seen this at your store? And is it any kind of real problem?

I think it depends on your surroundings, too. I've had a few (four) experiences where I'm working alone in domestics or seasonal at times where guest traffic is incredibly low, and the only person near me is a plain-clothed guest with a gun holster on their belt. Every single one of those made me uncomfortable enough to get off the sales floor for a while, until they left my area.

Like @Retail Girl has said, unless it's law enforcement or our cash vault service, I have no interest in helping or being around an openly armed guest..

 

[SrTPS]

I'm in an open carry state and we get people carrying in the store all the time. Adding a no guns policy would only hurt the company. Yes it may make you uncomfortable that someone has a gun in the store but don't complain to Target about it, complain to your legislation. Voice your concern that you don't think people have any business with guns in retail venues, that way Target isn't singled out as the bad guy banning guns. From a corporate viewpoint, it was an irresponsible statement to make. Keep with the policy on honoring the local law.

As for someone's earlier question about team members carrying on duty: I can tell you right now that carrying a firearm on the clock - concealed carry permit or not - is absolutely forbidden. Technically I'm not even allowed to have the pocket knife I keep on me (only Target box cutters) but I would be fired in an instant if I came in packing heat.

 

[oath2order]

On this note, you didn't answer a previous question. How often do supermarkets like Target get robbed?

I don't know. how often do they get robbed?

No, thats what I'm asking you. Because in my experience, and pribably in the experience of many other people, armed robbery is NOT a concern. Personally, I've worked here for three years. Never been robbed. I have the feel that's most people's experience. If I was a betting man, I'd say you have a better chance at being struck by lightning than being in a store while it's getting robbed.

Maybe your store gets robbed a lot. I don't know. But I agree with Target's position on ribberies in general. "Give them what they want." Look if I'm cashiering, and someone points a gun at me and asks for the money, the last goddamn thing I need in this world is some wannabe superhero with a gun thinking HE'S going to save the bloody day.

All I've noticed from the pro-gun crowd is this massive paranoia and fear that there are bad guys just around the corner.

If armed robbery isn't a problem at Target then what would be the point of banning guns in the stores? Besides, Like I said before, people carry for self-defense, not to stop robberies.

People that carry are not paranoid. They simply hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.

This begs the questipn of "how often are people in danger at fricking TARGET"

 

[TiedAndDropped]

Mods, can we close this thread? This forum is about Target, not politics.

As the OP I also request that this thread be closed. It has been interesting to see the various viewpoints, and I think the discussion has been generally civil and thoughtful, but positions are starting to harden and this could turn into a slugfest.

 

[Barcode]

IMO, I would appreciate Target banning open-carry in their stores. There isn't a need for somebody to go grocery shopping with a huge gun strapped across their back. If you're going to talk self-defense, concealed carry is a more logical alternative.

Similar to all the policies, procedures, best practices, and processes that corporate rolls out.... They aren't all ridiculous, but usually there just isn't a need for them.

I agree... Concealed carry is fine. Why would someone need a rifle slung over their shoulders to defend themselves at Target? If they knew anything about firearms, they would know that their Rifle poses a greater threat to everyone in the store than not having it at all. Most rifle rounds will go clean through just about anything in the store, and the risk for collateral damage is extremely high (aka missing and hitting another person). A concealable handgun does not have this problem to that extent.

I would definitely feel safer having someone with a concealed handgun being in the store in case shit went down, but all of these idiots waving around shotguns and rifles do NOT.

 

[Noiinteam]

Mods, can we close this thread? This forum is about Target, not politics.

I second this. Enough is enough

 

[redeye58]

Ditto on this.
It's run its course.

 

[oath2order]

Until the next national gun news story >.>

 

[melvin]

The calls to close this thread are a big reason why this country is so polarized. Contrary to what some contend, we hardly have any debate at all, and when it begins, we hear the voices of those who wish to shut it down once it becomes remotely contentious. They fear robust debate and search out ways to avoid it or silence it. When you shut off debate, the various sides stick comfortably to their positions, as they lay unchallenged or unanswered.

There were some excellent questions in this thread - What is the relative danger going to work in a Target store? How likely is the average concealed carry user to be able to stop a perpetrator in a crisis situation? What precisely was intended with the language of the 2nd Amendment and how does it apply today?

A shame this will be shut down by popular demand.

 

[oath2order]

The calls to close this thread are a big reason why this country is so polarized. Contrary to what some contend, we hardly have any debate at all, and when it begins, we hear the voices of those who wish to shut it down once it becomes remotely contentious. They fear robust debate and search out ways to avoid it or silence it. When you shut off debate, the various sides stick comfortably to their positions, as they lay unchallenged or unanswered.

There were some excellent questions in this thread - What is the relative danger going to work in a Target store? How likely is the average concealed carry user to be able to stop a perpetrator in a crisis situation? What precisely was intended with the language of the 2nd Amendment and how does it apply today?

A shame this will be shut down by popular demand.

I agree. I may be coming off as a little harsh, but I do enjoy the debate.

 

[Deli Ninja]

I think the biggest thing that shuts down this debate is the fact that people on the most extreme end of pro-gun keep claiming that anti-gun won't stop until all guns are banned, period. That is simply not the case. There is no point in bringing up the idea of banning all guns unless you want to ban all guns and you are prepared to defend your stance. If no one participating in the debate wants to ban all guns, all you're going to end up doing is arguing against yourself.

What this thread should be about is whether guns should be allowed in Target and why or why not as well as how to handle a situation where a gun is present in your store.

I personally would rather not see guns in store. The only time I have seen someone practice open carry at Target, the man was there with his wife and kids. Young couple, young kids. I asked CIHYFS, he said no thank you, and I left them to shop. If it had been an assault rifle rather than a properly secured handgun, I probably would have avoided the hell out of them.

 

[Guest]

I haven't seen any bubbas carrying any weapons into the store. I honestly don't know why anyone would try to commit a crime at the store I work at. The cops are right down the road, not even 2 blocks away.

I think people that are hardcore when it comes to gun control just don't think their argument through. I mean if you ban all guns then you have to ban anything that can be a weapon which is everything and anything. Anything can be used as a weapon.

 

[oath2order]

I haven't seen any bubbas carrying any weapons into the store. I honestly don't know why anyone would try to commit a crime at the store I work at. The cops are right down the road, not even 2 blocks away.

I think people that are hardcore when it comes to gun control just don't think their argument through. I mean if you ban all guns then you have to ban anything that can be a weapon which is everything and anything. Anything can be used as a weapon.

NOBODY IS SAYING THEY WANT TO BAN ALL GUNS JFC.

 

[Red Master]

I agree that carrying rifles into places like Target is stupid. The people that have been doing, don't do it on a regular basis they were just trying to make a statement. But they went about it the wrong way.

As for the relative danger at Target. All it takes is one homicidal maniac. Movie theaters are relatively safe places too, but we all know what happened in Aurora. Like I said, people that carry are not paranoid, they simply hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Better to have a gun and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

 

[SrTPS]

I've never seen anyone carry a rifle into the store. Plenty of people with handguns, of course.

But to the question of whether or not Target should ban guns, I say banning then would be a bad business decision. The general population who would enjoy this change wouldn't actually notice a difference (the number of times I've been called because a guest saw someone in the store with a gun is staggering; apparently I'm always the first to inform a full grown adult guest that it's legal to open carry a firearm). What it would do is bring down guest traffic from the conservative side. Already there are enough people angered by the statement that was made - if it became a full out ban, they would stop shopping at Target entirely.

One more point: If a homicidal maniac is going to come shoot up Target, a "No firearms permitted on the premesis" sign on the door is not going to stop them (because that's all we can actually do, the team can't confront people with guns for liability reasons). If the maniac does come in, well then I hope one of the law abiding citizens who is legally carrying is there to possibly stop it.

 

[The Dude Abides]

The myth of "good guys carrying guns stop bad guys from carrying guns" really needs to die. These people carrying guns on them to "stop the bad guys" are not trained professionals and more often than not get themselves or other innocents killed by trying to be a hero.

On top of that making open carry of assault rifles against the law gives us the option to call the police the second we see some nutjob walking around with it. We don't have to wait to see if they are a "real American patriot" or a mentally deranged psychopath. The couple that shot up a Walmart a couple of weeks back walked for miles with a shopping cart full of guns and no one thought anything of it as if it's perfectly normal to have a stockpile of guns being pushed up the street.

 

[Red Master]

The myth of "good guys carrying guns stop bad guys from carrying guns" really needs to die. These people carrying guns on them to "stop the bad guys" are not trained professionals and more often than not get themselves or other innocents killed by trying to be a hero.

On top of that making open carry of assault rifles against the law gives us the option to call the police the second we see some nutjob walking around with it. We don't have to wait to see if they are a "real American patriot" or a mentally deranged psychopath. The couple that shot up a Walmart a couple of weeks back walked for miles with a shopping cart full of guns and no one thought anything of it as if it's perfectly normal to have a stockpile of guns being pushed up the street.

The real myth is that armed, law abiding citizens cannot stop a bad guy with a gun. The fact is that from 2007-2011 235,700 people used guns in self-defense.
http://m.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/04/charts-debunking-myth-guns-self-defense

You're right, if a ban on "assault weapons" is passed then if you see somebody carrying one he is a criminal and you can call 911, but before the cops get there that nutjob has several minutes to shoot up the place and if you had your way nobody would be able to stop him, at least not until he reloads, but by that time there could be up to 100 people dead.

 

[The Dude Abides]

Do you like taking statistics out of context to make them seem more beneficial to your argument? How about you re-read your own source to see how silly pulling that one statistic out of that is.

 

[Red Master]

And there are less than 1000 accidental shootings every year. http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybe...he-myths-promoted-by-the-gun-control-lobby/2/

So for every 47 people that use guns for self-defense, only 1 person gets shot accidentally.

 

[The Dude Abides]

and for every one instance of self defense five guns are stolen in this country and for every one instance of self defense there are 49 criminal uses of guns.

 

[Red Master]

Do you like taking statistics out of context to make them seem more beneficial to your argument? How about you re-read your own source to see how silly pulling that one statistic out of that is.

No, it is the source that takes the stats out of context. It uses percentages, but it fails to mention that less than 5 percent of the population actually carries a gun on a regular basis. So when you look at the stats provided in the source keeping that information in mind, the stats actually favor the pro gun argument.

 

[Red Master]

and for every one instance of self defense five guns are stolen in this country and for every one instance of self defense there are 49 criminal uses of guns.

And the criminals are still going to use guns whether we ban them or not.

 

[SrTPS]

and for every one instance of self defense five guns are stolen in this country and for every one instance of self defense there are 49 criminal uses of guns.

And the criminals are still going to use guns whether we ban them or not.

My point exactly. The things you're afraid of aren't going to be stopped by a Target gun ban.

 

[The Dude Abides]

and for every one instance of self defense five guns are stolen in this country and for every one instance of self defense there are 49 criminal uses of guns.

And the criminals are still going to use guns whether we ban them or not.

Except then they could be arrested and punished simply for carrying the weapon instead of us having to wait until they shoot up an elementary school. One solution is proactive the other is reactive.

 

[Red Master]

and for every one instance of self defense five guns are stolen in this country and for every one instance of self defense there are 49 criminal uses of guns.

And the criminals are still going to use guns whether we ban them or not.

Except then they could be arrested and punished simply for carrying the weapon instead of us having to wait until they shoot up an elementary school. One solution is proactive the other is reactive.

Schools are gun free zones! And they still get shot up. And thanks to your "solution" nobody is ever able to stop the shooter until many kids are already shot.