Archived All new ETLs are getting $60K to start now???

[ptl]

Just recently got my offer and i can assure you the 60,000 starting ETL pay is not accurate

You will make less as someone promoted within than someone hired outside the company, even though you most likely will do a better job. Just another way Target screws its employees.

This is not true. In that last 2 years I have personally promoted two hourly tms (1 TL and 1 tm) to ETL jobs and they both make significantly more money they campus hired ETLs at my store. It alls depends on what you argue for, and if you are convincing. It is actually easier to get more money as an internal then a campus-hire. An external with experience is where you typically get the highest starting compensation.

I'll defer to your wisdom on ETL pay. Out of curiosity, though, in your experience, does the same hold true for TL promotes/externals? In my experience (both my own promotion and around 10 friends who promoted/10 friends who were external hires), the common wisdom that coming from outside gets you more money was absolutely valid, even for people with no previous experience or ridiculously irrelevant experience (e.g., we had a guy--call him Bob--who was 20, no degree, his only experience was one year as a car salesman, no leadership/supervisory responsibilities, no military service etc., who hired in at $3.50 over our then-current TL baseline start rate). Meanwhile, people with 5+ years at Target, a degree, solid EX reviews, etc., were hard-pressed to get an extra dollar beyond the baseline raise, even if that still put them at less than what Bob was hired at.

 

[YepanSTL]

This is not true. In that last 2 years I have personally promoted two hourly tms (1 TL and 1 tm) to ETL jobs and they both make significantly more money they campus hired ETLs at my store. It alls depends on what you argue for, and if you are convincing. It is actually easier to get more money as an internal then a campus-hire. An external with experience is where you typically get the highest starting compensation.

As far a doing a better job, you might catch on more quickly, but everyone starts somewhere. It is really not fair to assume an external hire will be perfect from day one. We all started our jobs as the new guy...give people a chance. Don't forget many of these people are young and learning a new job with a new team. It doesn't mean they aren't good people and won't become great bosses.

I'm willing to give you that, up to a point.
Sure there are plenty of mature intelligent young men and women graduating from college every day (my daughter being one of them -- daddy pride, sorry) and we've got a number of them who have worked at our store.
I was young too and managed businesses with a modcom of success.
But can you say that the culture that has developed over the past years creating entire teams of ETLs under 30; with being an ETL and college as their only experience, many of them still living at home and who have almost no understanding of needs of the people they are supposed to be managing, can be healthy for the company in the long run?
Even worse can a STL who comes out of that milieu be a positive force.

I hope I haven't insulted anyone here.

I am absolutely concerned about the huge exodus of experienced talent and the continuous influx of very young, inexperience talent. I think it is going to catch up the company pretty quicky, and I think many groups are seeing this issue now. I guess my point was more along the lines that there seems to be a persistent opinion that ETLs suck just because they are young and inexperienced. It is a really tough gig, and it gets tougher every year. Many/most of them don't make it because they don't ultimately become great bosses. Even if they promote, it always catches up to them as some point.

I think the real issue is how disconnected senior leaders are from the reality of running a store right now. Most of them ran stores when it was easy (pre-2009). It has gotten tougher and less-fun each year, but the demand is the same. There continues to be a focus on campus hires because they don't know any different. But like I said, I think it will eventually be an issue and the company will start running out of talent to manage stores.

 

[YepanSTL]

Just recently got my offer and i can assure you the 60,000 starting ETL pay is not accurate

You will make less as someone promoted within than someone hired outside the company, even though you most likely will do a better job. Just another way Target screws its employees.

This is not true. In that last 2 years I have personally promoted two hourly tms (1 TL and 1 tm) to ETL jobs and they both make significantly more money they campus hired ETLs at my store. It alls depends on what you argue for, and if you are convincing. It is actually easier to get more money as an internal then a campus-hire. An external with experience is where you typically get the highest starting compensation.

I'll defer to your wisdom on ETL pay. Out of curiosity, though, in your experience, does the same hold true for TL promotes/externals? In my experience (both my own promotion and around 10 friends who promoted/10 friends who were external hires), the common wisdom that coming from outside gets you more money was absolutely valid, even for people with no previous experience or ridiculously irrelevant experience (e.g., we had a guy--call him Bob--who was 20, no degree, his only experience was one year as a car salesman, no leadership/supervisory responsibilities, no military service etc., who hired in at $3.50 over our then-current TL baseline start rate). Meanwhile, people with 5+ years at Target, a degree, solid EX reviews, etc., were hard-pressed to get an extra dollar beyond the baseline raise, even if that still put them at less than what Bob was hired at.

I would agree that external TL typically get a hire rate than internal promotes. Target has tried to "fix" this by telling STLs that there is a range to start TLs, which is about t $11 (depending on the market) whether they are experienced or not. However, in reality I will not get people to join the company if I don't offer them at least what they had at their last job. Nobody actually checks on this, so it will stay this way until there is some follow-up.

Internals probably get the proverbial "shaft" in this sense. When I have had internal promotions we offer the typical raise, and if they ask for more I don't think that I've ever said no (assuming it is reasonable). However, I get to make this decision and not every STL would do the same thing. I just always tell people that it never hurts to ask.

 

[abevigoda]

Just recently got my offer and i can assure you the 60,000 starting ETL pay is not accurate

You will make less as someone promoted within than someone hired outside the company, even though you most likely will do a better job. Just another way Target screws its employees.

This is not true. In that last 2 years I have personally promoted two hourly tms (1 TL and 1 tm) to ETL jobs and they both make significantly more money they campus hired ETLs at my store. It alls depends on what you argue for, and if you are convincing. It is actually easier to get more money as an internal then a campus-hire. An external with experience is where you typically get the highest starting compensation.

As far a doing a better job, you might catch on more quickly, but everyone starts somewhere. It is really not fair to assume an external hire will be perfect from day one. We all started our jobs as the new guy...give people a chance. Don't forget many of these people are young and learning a new job with a new team. It doesn't mean they aren't good people and won't become great bosses.

It actually is true. Maybe your district is different, or maybe you are attempting to keep Target in a positive light, but regardless I know what I'm talking about and so do many others.

 

[ISIS639]

It actually is true. Maybe your district is different, or maybe you are attempting to keep Target in a positive light, but regardless I know what I'm talking about and so do many others.

I've only seen a handful of examples either way, salary isn't something I get in the habit of talking about with people, but what I've gathered is that external ETLs, whether they are initially offered it or not, are better at arguing for better pay. Target has a way of treating those they promote to ETL as though they are doing them a huge favor and once they get signed up on, its by the skin of their teeth and that person should be grateful because of all the hard work their superiors put into them. I think internal are less likely to negotiate a higher salary because of the weird attitude associated with it.

 

[YepanSTL]

Just recently got my offer and i can assure you the 60,000 starting ETL pay is not accurate

You will make less as someone promoted within than someone hired outside the company, even though you most likely will do a better job. Just another way Target screws its employees.

This is not true. In that last 2 years I have personally promoted two hourly tms (1 TL and 1 tm) to ETL jobs and they both make significantly more money they campus hired ETLs at my store. It alls depends on what you argue for, and if you are convincing. It is actually easier to get more money as an internal then a campus-hire. An external with experience is where you typically get the highest starting compensation.

As far a doing a better job, you might catch on more quickly, but everyone starts somewhere. It is really not fair to assume an external hire will be perfect from day one. We all started our jobs as the new guy...give people a chance. Don't forget many of these people are young and learning a new job with a new team. It doesn't mean they aren't good people and won't become great bosses.

It actually is true. Maybe your district is different, or maybe you are attempting to keep Target in a positive light, but regardless I know what I'm talking about and so do many others.

I guess we will agree to disagree on this one. As far as keeping Target in a positive light...just trying to keep it real.

 

[YepanSTL]

Btw, didn't mean to ruffle your feathers Abe. Just speaking from experience. Definitely didn't mean to imply you didn't know what you were talking about.

 

[redandkhaki]

It actually is true. Maybe your district is different, or maybe you are attempting to keep Target in a positive light, but regardless I know what I'm talking about and so do many others.

I've only seen a handful of examples either way, salary isn't something I get in the habit of talking about with people, but what I've gathered is that external ETLs, whether they are initially offered it or not, are better at arguing for better pay. Target has a way of treating those they promote to ETL as though they are doing them a huge favor and once they get signed up on, its by the skin of their teeth and that person should be grateful because of all the hard work their superiors put into them. I think internal are less likely to negotiate a higher salary because of the weird attitude associated with it.

i would completely agree with this. When i became a team lead i almost laughed at them when they told me what my raise would be. I basically told them no that would not do and this is why and was able to get 3.25 an hour more than what they offered. It was a 15 minute conversation with ETL-HR and STL and i walked away winning on that one. A couple of weeks ago the ETL-HR and I were talking and she brought up that conversation and said that I was the very first person to ever ask her for more money as an internal promotion and she's been doing this for a long time.

 

[ptl]

It actually is true. Maybe your district is different, or maybe you are attempting to keep Target in a positive light, but regardless I know what I'm talking about and so do many others.

I've only seen a handful of examples either way, salary isn't something I get in the habit of talking about with people, but what I've gathered is that external ETLs, whether they are initially offered it or not, are better at arguing for better pay. Target has a way of treating those they promote to ETL as though they are doing them a huge favor and once they get signed up on, its by the skin of their teeth and that person should be grateful because of all the hard work their superiors put into them. I think internal are less likely to negotiate a higher salary because of the weird attitude associated with it.

i would completely agree with this. When i became a team lead i almost laughed at them when they told me what my raise would be. I basically told them no that would not do and this is why and was able to get 3.25 an hour more than what they offered. It was a 15 minute conversation with ETL-HR and STL and i walked away winning on that one. A couple of weeks ago the ETL-HR and I were talking and she brought up that conversation and said that I was the very first person to ever ask her for more money as an internal promotion and she's been doing this for a long time.

3.25, well done. I'm very surprised to hear what your ETL said--I'd have thought asking for more was such an obvious move it would be near-universal. I discussed the question with most of the promoted TLs I've worked with, and only one told me she didn't ask for more. Of course, like I said before, actually getting more was not the normal outcome (well, that's not true--almost all of us got 50 cents).

 

[erickanderson44]

Started out of college at 55k. Received a raise to 58k three months later. And after my yearly AE review I am not at 65k. Only been with Target for 19 months. The good life

 

[thenewge]

I was an external hire and hired on at 70k.

 

[FrontEndFirecracker]

Spot is apparently notorious for great disparities in pay among people in the same positions.

I know two ETL's in my store personally (before I started working there). One ETL has been with spot since being a cashier almost 10 years ago. He got a degree, and at around 40 years old - he makes about $58K a year before taxes. Another ETL was just hired on in 2013 as a college recruit, and he makes roughly $52K at 22 years old. As a brand new GSA (coming from HL), I'm now making over $11 an hour. Another person who was a GSA for 4 years and recently promoted to APS was making $9.90 after 4 years of being a GSA. My store also has a starbucks TM that makes over $13 an hour because she was a RX tech at over $12 an hour, and transferred to starbucks and got that raise.

This is for sure the reason they discourage us from discussing pay.

 

[tmsurvivor]

Really....those for the most part worthless etls making that much? So when 4 of them go on one of those service turtle walks how much does that 30 minutes cost?