The whole modernization thing would never fly with the union, as changing job duties and/or adding to them would require a new contract. Also, many union contracts including the one at my grocery store require the store to schedule part-time employees a minimum of 24 hours or more and scheduling is based on seniority, so newbies are supposed to get the least hours. At my store there are very few non-union employees and all department managers are under a union contract (if they chose to be, as state law doesn't require them to sign a union contract, but they miss out on many benefits if not). Lastly, the only person at my store that writes (coaching, CCA, and so on) anyone up is the store director.
Everyone at my previous store is on the chopping block.
- Thread starter cashguru
- Start date
- Replies 102
- Views 18K
-
- Tags
- team member
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2018
- Messages
- 188
They have these rights, yes. Of course. They also have the American WORKING CLASS GIVEN right and OBLIGATION as a PUBLICLY held company with 25+ employees to treat people with dignity and respect and honor anti discrimination statutes as well as ADA implications.
They aren't a privately held MA & PA entity.
Planosss
User friendly.
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2017
- Messages
- 4,199
.... and they are violating those obligations because they want employees to work harder? Or adapt to the changing retail/commerce landscape? Karen, like I said before there are plenty of other employers out there, some with stricter policies than Target. I don’t think Target deserves to be defamed like this on an anonymous website like this.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2018
- Messages
- 188
Omg
"DEFAMED"? I don't think anyone here is defaming anyone. I think people blow off steam, fuse ideas, get their feelings heard, get their lives validated.
DEFAME Target? I checked and this is supposed to be for Target employees. The public shouldn't be in here and if they are well, get something better to do.
I'm curious. I heard the "Karen" thing somewhere. Is that a Saturday night live character?
!
"DEFAMED"? I don't think anyone here is defaming anyone. I think people blow off steam, fuse ideas, get their feelings heard, get their lives validated.
DEFAME Target? I checked and this is supposed to be for Target employees. The public shouldn't be in here and if they are well, get something better to do.
I'm curious. I heard the "Karen" thing somewhere. Is that a Saturday night live character?
Planosss
User friendly.
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2017
- Messages
- 4,199
Yeah , its a SNL thing. Good luck , I am going to go puke now , for having participated in this thread.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2018
- Messages
- 188
Well, I you may want to consider an electrolyte replenishing solution such as Pedialyte, to assist in refurnishing that lost potassium and magnesium.
Oh! And please don't puke in the store. No morning CAs anymore.
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2011
- Messages
- 1,003
They are doing something immoral AND illegal. It is against the law to discriminate based on age. They are doing it AND they are getting away with it. They can implement any policy they want EXCEPT those that are against the law.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2018
- Messages
- 188
They are quite sneaky about how they do it though. Unfortunately for Target they're getting sloppy about it.
I truly hate to see this happening as I LOVE Target. I really do. The people I've worked with are amazing. The place is referred to so often as one's "happy place".
I've ALWAYS proudly said who I work for. Even in retirement, just at the store but it's MORE than "just at the store". I've always been proud but the things I'm seeing are so difficult to swallow.
I started writing lists of names of co-workers down. I went through this last week. Several are deceased, no one said ANYTHING in their memory. Some just vanished and I was told "he/she quit. Got another job", when I know full well that's not true. Others I pass like ships in the night and they tell me they have only 4 or 8 hours the whole week. The stories kind of go on and on and I'D love to figure out HOW to stop it.
I don't want our Targets going to heck
EagleEye
Executive Team Leader
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2013
- Messages
- 550
Not seeing age discrimination where I'm at. We have the same thing going on where it's either get on board or get out, but it's mostly the younger TMs who don't want to do...anything really. The older, tenured TMs are the happiest and more highly regarded in my store.
Most of the stores I've been at, however, are ones with older TMs who don't want to change with the new rollouts. Nothing to do with age, everything to do with being stubborn.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2018
- Messages
- 188
I understand that, as well, @EagleEye , and agree to some extent. The issue there is that the modernization doesn't work and those individuals are frustrated. I know Target thinks "new mindset, get new minds" but has completely forgotten that with age comes much wisdom, trials, tribulations, successes, and failures and those seeds of knowledge CANNOT be replaced.
Why not, instead, work as an actual TEAM to embrace the goals in an attempt to make them work?!?! The $500 sell win lose play, whatever that thing was, was a big demoralizing factor (I found out that seasonals DID get it and when Target said "team members", they didn't excude TLs).
Instead of making people go to the unemployment office over hours or just go without adequate heat or food in order to nudge them out...WHY NOT make them part of the project?
Is it REALLY that hard?
I'm not asking you, @EagleEye , I'm simply expounding on your post.
What's happening is not moral OR legal but seems to me few realize that.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2018
- Messages
- 188
Oh! How did I forget to touch on your point about younger workers, @EagleEye ? I must be half asleep.
Not all are lazy and slothlike but very VERY unseasoned and just don't know how to posture or really take responsibility.
Fresh out of college? Know it alls. They THINK they have a grasp but they really don't. They will, in time, but Target is asking them for way too much way too fast. One cannot be seasoned so quickly. It's physiologically impossible (for most of the population).
High school? This isn't their bread and butter or the end that makes the meet. Who expects them to? They're still kids!
The older (in age) people I know are not being treated right. There is NOTHING wrong with their performance and, trust me, I'm brutal on doing things by the book and in good time. They are being "outed" and I saw 4 in the last two months amomg three stores that didn't want to leave but they were made miserable. All were 12+ years with Target.
Not all are lazy and slothlike but very VERY unseasoned and just don't know how to posture or really take responsibility.
Fresh out of college? Know it alls. They THINK they have a grasp but they really don't. They will, in time, but Target is asking them for way too much way too fast. One cannot be seasoned so quickly. It's physiologically impossible (for most of the population).
High school? This isn't their bread and butter or the end that makes the meet. Who expects them to? They're still kids!
The older (in age) people I know are not being treated right. There is NOTHING wrong with their performance and, trust me, I'm brutal on doing things by the book and in good time. They are being "outed" and I saw 4 in the last two months amomg three stores that didn't want to leave but they were made miserable. All were 12+ years with Target.
EagleEye
Executive Team Leader
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2013
- Messages
- 550
Maybe your leader is bad at leading, then. Remember every store is different. We have multiple team members at 15+ years who are SLOWWWW but do their best to change and follow new guidelines and guess what...they're not going anywhere, not being forced out, not being outed.
I've worked, supported, or trained at 6 different stores in the past year. At none of them I saw this age discrimination that is being thrown about. I did see, however, younger people (from high school to college) deciding that hiding in a corner and going on their phone is OK, telling the leader that is coaching them "I don't care, keep coaching me, I'm not going to do what you're asking" is the right way to respond to a conversation that is meant to help them, and not understand simple requests like "follow up with your leader before you leave" or "know sales from yesterday in your department". It's easy, even for high school kids.
There may be something illegal happening in your store, but in my own (long time) experience, I don't see anything that is telling Target leaders to age discriminate.
Have you seen all of the training material available to team members now? Have you been a part of the training that was seemingly mandatory when we decided to move toward modernization? It was all very in depth and fun, and I would consider it the "team effort" you're looking for to embrace change.
I'm going to close my rant off with saying that I'm not discrediting anything of your own experience, it may be like that where you're located. I'm just offering another diverse perspective that just shows that there are good stores, districts, or groups even, where I can't find anything to support your claims.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2018
- Messages
- 188
I think you raise great points, @EagleEye . You strike me as quite intelligent and insightful. And you're not ranting, you're simply responding. I appreciate that
I've not seen anyone told to age discriminate, what I've seen are long term people on a retirement income or living on deceased husband's SS income get their hours shaved to 4 per week when they need 20 to keep their Target benefit status. Upon going to HR they are told to go to swap sheet. Upon going to swap sheet they see a newbie gave up the hours that widow USED to have to yet another newbie. All is in same ink and handwriting. That went on for 3 weeks until widow finally left.
Coincidence?
On subject of training manuals given to new hires. No. I've not seen a single one. I only know that I was given a total of 7 to train, 5 pre Christmas and 2 after the new year and every last one said they were hired as permanent and they DID get permanent people's hours.
As far as the "mandatory training toward modernization"?
I've been in stores for 4½ years and have never even HEARD of such training, not from anyone back at corporate OR anyone in my stores. That's kind of a shocker to me.
I never heard of any such thing.
I'm wondering, now...
Maybe I don't fit their "future" after all these years?
Wow
I've not seen anyone told to age discriminate, what I've seen are long term people on a retirement income or living on deceased husband's SS income get their hours shaved to 4 per week when they need 20 to keep their Target benefit status. Upon going to HR they are told to go to swap sheet. Upon going to swap sheet they see a newbie gave up the hours that widow USED to have to yet another newbie. All is in same ink and handwriting. That went on for 3 weeks until widow finally left.
Coincidence?
On subject of training manuals given to new hires. No. I've not seen a single one. I only know that I was given a total of 7 to train, 5 pre Christmas and 2 after the new year and every last one said they were hired as permanent and they DID get permanent people's hours.
As far as the "mandatory training toward modernization"?
I've been in stores for 4½ years and have never even HEARD of such training, not from anyone back at corporate OR anyone in my stores. That's kind of a shocker to me.
I never heard of any such thing.
I'm wondering, now...
Maybe I don't fit their "future" after all these years?
Wow
Deserves? Lol. If I were to say employees deserve ... you'd be the first person to say nobody deserves anything.
oath2order
Scary Socialist
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2013
- Messages
- 10,488
Nope. A-volume pfresh
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2011
- Messages
- 34,012
Sounds like gossip to me. Focus on your current store, please.
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2017
- Messages
- 1,232
A union rep would not help. You can fire someone in a union for failure to perform or insubordination just as easy. Only difference is that because wages are in the contract you no longer get merit raises and you have to promote the person who applies that has been there the longest. (Which, by the way, usually means you are promoting the least qualified.)
OneArmedJesus
Entertainment DBO
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2018
- Messages
- 1,166
"My store sucks, so that means the company is in trouble and sucks"
I swear this is the attitude of certain fcking people on this site.
ASANTS all the way
It's amazing how the stores that seem to be doing so well are often overlooked and not given any focus
But let's keeping focusing on the negative guys 🙄🙄🙄
Not every store has horrible leadership, just because you're store is in trouble, doesnt really mean shit, it shows that you're a incompetent leader or have incompetent leadership
I swear this is the attitude of certain fcking people on this site.
ASANTS all the way
It's amazing how the stores that seem to be doing so well are often overlooked and not given any focus
But let's keeping focusing on the negative guys 🙄🙄🙄
Not every store has horrible leadership, just because you're store is in trouble, doesnt really mean shit, it shows that you're a incompetent leader or have incompetent leadership
oath2order
Scary Socialist
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2013
- Messages
- 10,488
Somehow the connection between "the company is hiring fresh out of college people" and "maybe that's why modernization isn't working" has gone over a lot of heads
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2012
- Messages
- 636
The bottom line is Target is changing into a new company. You either accept those changes or leave. Some old timers cannot accept it. The problem with new hires is some have a horrible work ethic and will not do all these tasks for min. wage. The changes to Target have been rolled out poorly. Some stores have the ability to make due and most cannot. Too many variables involved whether it's bad training, leaders, employees. Personally, I have witnessed illegal and immoral actions by management to team members in order to "achieve" at modernization. IMO, I think there are enough stores failing at modernization and heads are rolling at all levels of Target. Every man for himself is our new mantra.
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2011
- Messages
- 1,003
Spot weeding out people of a certain age does not mean these people have worked for decades at this company. They just happen to be 50+. years old. They can still multi task, use sound reasoning skills, and have excellent service skills. Even in the hiring process, we were told to look for a "certain type" and that had nothing to do with hair color. I have said more than once that this company needed to reinvent itself to stay relevant. People shop differently and its either adapt or disappear. A great deal of modernization makes good sense. My issue with spot is how they choose to rollout a major change not only in process but also structure. To completely change everything, and in my district, start at 4th quarter was plain stupidity. Such a shift needed to be rolled out strategically and methodically. You give people a chance to adapt. If they don't, they need to promote to guest. But in this process you do not resort to illegal and immoral ways to make them "disappear". I have a feeling (and I could be wrong, I often am) that the next couple of months are going to brutal in "reshaping" their workforce. Spot wants worker bees now. Able to follow commands, with a never quit ethic. They need to be available to work all shifts and any day.The focus of filling pipelines with talent is going to slow to a crawl. You will no longer have the need for a bunch of TLs. Of course not every store is following this strategy in the same way, but the end result will be the same. There are Leaders that will have the backbone to honestly tell their teams the direction of the company and what is going to be expected and then give them a chance to rise to the occasion. But sadly those leaders are few and far between. It is a dog eat dog workplace (yep a pun) If you are perfectly okay with what you see going on, that is your right. But regardless of the rose colored glasses you wear, this crap is happening, it is illegal and it is immoral. It will continue to happen as long as this company can get away with it.
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2011
- Messages
- 1,003
I appreciate your perspective. There are good stores with wonderful leadership. Unfortunately those are fewer and far between. I too had been around a long time....very long.I too have worked in multiple stores and been a part of many planoramas, even traveling to different states for a few. I have met some wonderful leaders and stay in touch to this day. But what is going on in many stores is going to reflect on the entire company if it is not stopped. My STL said the actual words old and fat when he told us who to target. (his words, not mine)
But my big question about your post is really simple. Spot does have tons of information available to train people. Exactly when does anyone use this information to train with? When does anyone have a 15 minute slot of time to send a team member to access the computer? Most training is slapped together by whoever happens to be working that day, even if they have only been employed a week longer. And of course that is if there is at least one other person on the floor with you. Training is the biggest fail at spot hands down. Its all for show, seldom used. They like to say "you own your training". Great in theory, not so much in reality. Do you do that while you are backing up at the lanes? Working the pallets of truck still on the dock? Responding to guests? Just curious.
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2018
- Messages
- 3,116
It's at will employment in retail. Everyone is always on the chopping block. It sucks that's how it is, but that's how it is. Target's coaching, cca, finals, etc. are a courtesy. They don't have to do them. Note, discrimination against people over 40 is illegal, but exceedingly difficult to prove.
