Archived Fired for working off the clock

[CTLGR8]

So.... a TL texting me instructions for work next day when I am home. Also sometimes when we are both off the clock, where does that fall on thr working off the clock spectrum?

 

[PogDog]

So.... a TL texting me instructions for work next day when I am home. Also sometimes when we are both off the clock, where does that fall on thr working off the clock spectrum?

That's a good question... I know the STL at our store constantly texts ALL the TLs daily. I guess the STL is exempt from "working off the clock" considering they're one of the few salaried positions at the store level... but Sr. TL and down are hourly employees and therefore would fall under the same rules as anyone else. But, texting is also incredibly hard to monitor, especially if no one isn't reporting it.

 

[PogDog]

15 minute break is a paid break. Spot paying for it, take it.

Well, yeah... I'm doing my best to take my breaks. But, sometimes the workload determines how much of a respite it would be take that break. I'd rather work through them at a relaxed pace, than take it and feel hurried the rest of the shift. Next week will be a week, that I'll want a break but know that there will be consequences for taking them (Thanks to corporate's thoughtless bullshit of having POG seasonal in 48 hours, See Spot Save, Sidecaps AND Hearth and Home. Seriously... where is all this fucking Halloween going?!)

The policies are in place to cover Corporate's ass... but they don't do anything to make it easy to follow those policies without consequences to the quality or quantity of work being done.

 

[HRZone]

Curious what the policy is on skipping 15's is? And if it's considered working off the clock if you skip them.

It's supposed to be a final warning. In California it's even more serious where's they can fire you for hitting compliance.

 

[HRZone]

reasons... but I don't really see how logging into a computer can be that dangerous (we're talking 5 minutes btw, I don't get to work THAT

Spot is smart about frivolous lawsuits. They know an employee can come back and sue them later saying I had to work off the clock because I couldn't use the printer on the clock. You are not that petty but someone is.

What's the policy working through your break?

"They" love it! Especially if it's your 2nd...

Nope if a leader knows you are skipping breaks they can be fired over it. It's company policy

 

[HRZone]

So.... a TL texting me instructions for work next day when I am home. Also sometimes when we are both off the clock, where does that fall on thr working off the clock spectrum?

The official policy is you are supposed to do a punch correction.

 

[HRZone]

The policies are in place to cover Corporate's ass... but they don't do anything to make it easy to follow those policies without consequences to the quality or quantity of work being done.

If you can't finish the job in the time given skipping your breaks to finish it is not doing anyone a favor. You create unrealistic expectations of how long a job actually takes.

 

[sprinklesontop]

It's always fascinated me that a Company will terminate a Team Member for working "too much" (as in the Off the Clock scenario) ...... and yet it takes months, sometimes years, to coach, counsel, document, etc the lazy-ass slackers who do "nothing all damn day".

 

[PogDog]

If you can't finish the job in the time given skipping your breaks to finish it is not doing anyone a favor. You create unrealistic expectations of how long a job actually takes.

Oh I definitely don't set the unrealistic goals thrust upon us. I'd be more than happy to do less. But being that the scenario at my store is less than ideal, it falls to me to pick up some of the slack or suffer as the workload backlogs into a pile worse than the current situation.

I see it going one of two ways. Either I'm stressed because I'm doing too much, or I'm stressed because management is pressuring me for doing too little. My mentality is to work more, not less. I'm sure there are psychological studies that explain that mentality. I wish I could feel guilty for allowing my cup to runneth over, but I don't. The irony is, I align with Democratic Socialism, which support worker's rights and unions (which these very policies were built under). I would advocate for anyone else in my very situation. Though self advocacy seems a prickly pear. I need to be better equip to understand what I can and can't do. Challenge back when pressure is pushed down on my team, my leader and myself. My TL is worse than I am and the more I point it out, the more she'll deny it.

 

[PogDog]

Btw @HRZone I do appreciate you answering all these posts and providing the actual policy information. The rules in place are there for our benefit, even if it seems to be counterproductive or even conflicting with how management appears to run things.

I might seem like a crazy person to some (@Kartman I'm looking at you) for working harder than I need too. But, I wouldn't be surprised if many on this site likely live the same situation I do at their respective stores. And if you ask any of the management; they'll be quick to say that they never asked me to do that much work... but they aren't quick to stop it or even offer up additional help to offset it either. It's a quandary.

 

[commiecorvus]

It's always fascinated me that a Company will terminate a Team Member for working "too much" (as in the Off the Clock scenario) ...... and yet it takes months, sometimes years, to coach, counsel, document, etc the lazy-ass slackers who do "nothing all damn day".

The former will get them sued by the state and federal labor boards, the latter is a pain in the ass but needs a proper paper trail to not get sued by the same agencies (if the person is willing to stand up for their rights).

 

[commiecorvus]

I am curious though. You'd think, given the number of employees there are that seemingly do nothing or love to slack off, Target actually stands to lose more money by keeping them on payroll than they would otherwise lose through fines or being sued.

They're really not. The rules are in place to benefit the company. Just like how HR exists to protect the company, not the employees.

Bad management is the other answer to your question.
It's why bad teachers stay in their jobs.
Has nothing to do with tenure or the unions, its principles who don't want to do their jobs.
Paperwork is a bitch, time consuming, requires patience and detail orientation.
Plus it means hiring someone new.
Some people would much rather stick with a devil they know then one they don't.

 

[commiecorvus]

Can't say that doesn't make sense. Management is made up of employees all the same.

That doesn't mean they a) are not that great at their job. b) are human like the rest of us and subject to time pressures, being overwhelmed, or laziness c) haven't been watching closely and the person in question has slipped under their radar d) are working on it, the process does take a while but they got sidetracked because Christmas, Easter whatever came along, and they will get back to it and e) like I said, don't have any training money so it's just easier to keep them on then hire new.

 

[HRZone]

It's always fascinated me that a Company will terminate a Team Member for working "too much" (as in the Off the Clock scenario) ...... and yet it takes months, sometimes years, to coach, counsel, document, etc the lazy-ass slackers who do "nothing all damn day".

You're right it is kinda ironic. In terms of liability working too much can be put on the company while not enough falls on the individual.

Amazon is facing some lawsuits over this now.

Either I'm stressed because I'm doing too much, or I'm stressed because management is pressuring me for doing too little

I think that's what I respect most about Plano folks like yourself. If our flow gets behind salesfloor can bail them out. If you get behind on your workload. There is no one to save you.

 

[PogDog]

I think that's what I respect most about Plano folks like yourself. If our flow gets behind salesfloor can bail them out. If you get behind on your workload. There is no one to save you.

Thanks!

The crazy thing, most teams are likely 4 people, which is 160 hours of full time. But we'll have weeks that are easily 200-300 hours. Granted it won't take 200-300 hours to set, but the break down of labor isn't expressed within the adjacency calendar, only that some pogs will take longer than others. And the expectation is that the team sets, pulls, pushes, researches, ensures price accuracy and signage are also up and in some instances also backstocks. We also might need to breakdown and move full aisles for little reason other than it's on the company's whims. We are a very dynamic team and it's not always clear where we can cut corners to make goal. So, while there might not be expressly stated work expectations it's not hard to see how easily it could be to get inundated with work. Not taking a break seems like the easy end round.

 

[Kartman]

Nope if a leader knows you are skipping breaks they can be fired over it. It's company policy

But they are ON the clock.

The rule you posted said nothing about what you are saying.

 

[HRLady]

But they are ON the clock.

The rule you posted said nothing about what you are saying.

Legally (may vary by state), breaks and meals are supposed to be work-free and uninterrupted. Target policy does not allow any non-exempt (hourly) TL/TM to voluntarily waive their breaks and lunches. Employees must take all of them and not work during that time.

Target not penalizing a non-exempt (hourly) TL/TM for working through them is like condoning it (a terminable offense for leaders), which opens themselves up to a lawsuit. In my state, there was a former TM who sued Target for having him to work through breaks and lunches. He reached a settlement and everyone who had any meal violations in my state got paid a small sum of money.

 

[Cinderella]

At my store they are pretty nice about it. Myself and other TLs often work out of the clock if something comes up. Our ETLs always ask us to do a punch correction - that way we get paid for the time we worked. And then of course we end up cutting hours another day so we don't go on overtime.

 

[HRLady]

At my store they are pretty nice about it. Myself and other TLs often work out of the clock if something comes up. Our ETLs always ask us to do a punch correction - that way we get paid for the time we worked.

TMs are supposed to do a punch corrections for any time that they work off-the-clock. Legally, you must be paid for any time worked.

Also, just to be safe (not sure if you already know about the following info but I don't want you to get in trouble), I am going to include that taking your meals on time is absolutely non-negotiable. You have to do it before your 5th hour (#th hour may vary by state); no exceptions.

No good comes out of not taking your lunches on time or at all: (1) If you took your lunch too late or skipped it, you will automatically be paid for your meal time but will also receive a corrective action. (2) If you do punch corrections to avoid meal violations, you will be terminated. You cannot work through your lunch and then do a punch correction that states that you took your meal on time while adding 45 mins of work time onto your time card. That's time clock fraud and people have gotten fired for it.

 

[HRZone]

1) If you took your lunch too late or skipped it, you will automatically be paid for your meal time but will also receive a corrective action.

I think you may be in Cali but our state it's not that serious. Compliance is usually a pdd or talking to.

You cannot work through your lunch and then do a punch correction that states that you took your meal on time while adding 45 mins of work time onto your time card.

Our seniors do this a lot. Closing LOD has no one there to cover their lunch so they do a working lunch adding 30 minutes.

 

[HRLady]

I think you may be in Cali

Yeah, haha. Cali laws don't play. It's pretty stressful to be HR here. One meal compliance puts you straight to corrective action. Two more and you are gone.

Our seniors do this a lot. Closing LOD has no one there to cover their lunch so they do a working lunch adding 30 minutes.

I know what you mean. TLs, especially our SrTLs, are the worst offenders in terms of working through their lunches.

 

[Cinderella]

TMs are supposed to do a punch corrections for any time that they work off-the-clock. Legally, you must be paid for any time worked.

Also, just to be safe (not sure if you already know about the following info but I don't want you to get in trouble), I am going to include that taking your meals on time is absolutely non-negotiable. You have to do it before your 5th hour (#th hour may vary by state); no exceptions.

No good comes out of not taking your lunches on time or at all: (1) If you took your lunch too late or skipped it, you will automatically be paid for your meal time but will also receive a corrective action. (2) If you do punch corrections to avoid meal violations, you will be terminated. You cannot work through your lunch and then do a punch correction that states that you took your meal on time while adding 45 mins of work time onto your time card. That's time clock fraud and people have gotten fired for it.

At my state we take lunches by the 6th hour and that's the one thing we are all pretty serious about. None of the TLs ever go on compliance 🙂

 

[shortstuffishere]

At my state we take lunches by the 6th hour and that's the one thing we are all pretty serious about. None of the TLs ever go on compliance 🙂

I'm in a 5 hour state. It got so bad that they had to start writing down when TM's on the floor had to take their lunch.

 

[qmosqueen]

this should be vice versa ...
fired for working off the clock and fired for not working on the clock !!

 

[Fix It]

I really wish I didn’t have to punch a clock to start work, begin lunch, end lunch, or end work.

I’m sure the HR peeps at my store feel the same for how many punch corrections I submit.