Archived Lazy LOD's??

[tellmeaboutatime]

" Management" work can be working along side team members. The managing part may be getting to know the team, see how they are feeling, finding out as management what they can do to foster a good working environment.You can learn more about what is working and what is broken as you are working along side a team than speculating and looking at how it should be on paper.No one should be sitting at TSC checking out Facebook. If an ETL chooses to take a break and check out facebook they should do it out of the working areas. TSC is a working area. The breakroom or Food Cafe would be more appropriate for that type of relaxation. ETLS do take longer breaks. But honestly do you really think most of them take more than 1 break a day? Not at my store. Most of them are uninterrupted multiple times during their because while it seems like they are having a jolly ol time they are still listening for calls. We as hourly members are guaranteed our breaks and lunches. There are ETLS that work 10 hour days without a break or lunch. Sure there are lazy ETLs, there are lazy team leads and there are lazy team members. Eventually the losers do get weeded out.

 

[targetpeon]

Can you show me where I said they are not allowed to do ANY TM work? I never said that.

I didnt say you said they are not allowed but since we are putting words in each others mouth then here is a quote from your first post on the topic.

Sooooo..... what does that mean? Legally ETLs *cannot* sit around performing hourly work, otherwise they could turn around and sue Target for huge gobs of overtime saying they don't meet the legal requirements to be "exempt" from overtime laws. Yes, they can do it sometimes, but the PRIMARY job has to be management..... and sitting around telling other what to do, sadly, is "management".

So I am a little confused, at the beginning your saying they cannot but at the end your saying they can sometimes....

The issue here is the degree of work performed.

The department of labor site says this "The employee’s primary duty must be managing the enterprise, or managing a customarily recognized department or subdivision of the enterprise;"

See the word "PRIMARY"? That means the majority of the time must be dedicated to management work. If an ETL is spending most of his day doing the zone, for example, then management isn't his primary duty, is it?

Salaried exempt employees can perform SOME TM work, but their primary duty must be managing.

If you do more work that is outside of your responsibilities then that does not mean your primary duty has changed. But if we are gonna get technical then stuff every day TMs do such as reshop or zone or push is ultimately their responsibility. Now if your ultimately responsible for this kinda stuff wouldn't that fall under your "PRIMARY" duties?

Here is an article that actually explains what the word "PRIMARY" means for exempt employees. (I think it is pretty sad the word "primary" needs to be explained to you, but whatever)

http://www.hrhub.com/doc.mvc/How-Much-Nonexempt-Work-Can-an-Exempt-Employe-0001

Yes please tell me how said it makes you to feel like I dont know what the word primary means, that is a very mature statement when you are trying to validate your argument.

"The Executive Exemption. Both the long and short tests for the executive exemption provide, among other things, that an employee's primary duty must involve managing the employing entity or a department thereof, and must include directing the work of two or more full-time employees. Under the long test only, a worker must spend no more than 20 percent of working time in nonexempt work—that is, in "activities which are not directly and closely related to the performance" of managerial work (29 C.F.R. §§541.1, 541.119). DOL regulations provide that the limitation on nonexempt work is 40 percent for employees working in retail or service establishments (29 C.F.R. §541.1(e))."

Read that? EXECUTIVE exemption (i.e. EXECUTIVE team leader) means that no more than 40% of their time can be spent doing non-exempt (in this case, TM work) in retail establishments.

If you read what I wrote before, I clearly stated it isn't a big deal if an ETL spends two hours every now and then helping out TMs, but if they are spending 4+ hours a day then it is a huge issue because they are clearly no longer making management their primary job and are clearly spending more time than legally allowed doing hourly work.

Target actually directs ETLs in their handbook to spend no more than 20% of their time doing hourly work at the absolute most. (yes, my STL actually told me this before) The reason is Target doesn't even want to take the chance of ETLs going over, just like they don't even want to take the chance of TMs waiting to the last minute to take their lunch in time. Also, some states have even more strict requirements than federal law (similiar to how some states have stricter lunch requirements for hourly employees) and restrict exempt employees to even less time, and in those states ETLs are even more limited in the amount of time they spend doing hourly work. So someone on this site (just a hypothetical) working at a store in Connecticut might see his/her ETLs hardly do anything because that state may limit their time to 10% doing hourly work, but a TM in Texas might see ETLs frequently doing hourly work because they can take the full 40%.

Ok so your argument goes from "*cannot* sit around performing hourly work" to they can do some work and now they can do up to 40%. Thats 16 hours a week that they are allowed to do hourly work. I am not factoring in what the rules are within target because until I actually read what the guidelines are it is hearsay.

Lets get this thread back on track, by your own links and fact finding we have established that ETLs can indeed help out yet why do a lot of them just sit around doing nothing?

 

[commiecorvus]

Lets get this thread back on track, by your own links and fact finding we have established that ETLs can indeed help out yet why do a lot of them just sit around doing nothing?

It's like any other job or group of people trying to get stuff done.
There are lazy folk, folk who do just enough and than there are folk who always try to do their best.
In general I think the ones you see that don't do nothing won't last too long.
They will either get let go or promoted.

 

[Pettjm54]

my ETL AP and ETL SL sit in the AP office the entire time and do not a freaking thing while one of them are LOD... it drives me nuts because then one of them have the balls to call me "Team Lead ***** hows the reshop and zone going?" i respond " You tell me youre in the AP office just watching the cameras.." cant stand it... told my ETL HR and STL... said theyd keep an eye on it... which they migh as well of said "I am not going to do anything about it so you might as well stop complaining about it.."

I love being a TL i really do but its hard to lvoe my job when my stl and other lods make me a team member and make me xzone and do reshop as opposed to following up with team members. my job consists of setting sales planners and ad rotations and then zoning and doing reshop while the ETLs/ LOD do absolutley nothing.... cant stand it.. deff vented on the best team survey...

 

[GlobalTL123]

my ETL AP and ETL SL sit in the AP office the entire time and do not a freaking thing while one of them are LOD... it drives me nuts because then one of them have the balls to call me "Team Lead ***** hows the reshop and zone going?" i respond " You tell me youre in the AP office just watching the cameras.." cant stand it... told my ETL HR and STL... said theyd keep an eye on it... which they migh as well of said "I am not going to do anything about it so you might as well stop complaining about it.."

I love being a TL i really do but its hard to lvoe my job when my stl and other lods make me a team member and make me xzone and do reshop as opposed to following up with team members. my job consists of setting sales planners and ad rotations and then zoning and doing reshop while the ETLs/ LOD do absolutley nothing.... cant stand it.. deff vented on the best team survey...

 

[GlobalTL123]

You sound like you would rather sit in front of the cameras. What team leader doesnt zone, we all do. At least the good ones.

 

[mrknownothing]

Since my store is very lean on sales floor hours, our ETLs sometimes put away reshop and set planograms (I was in hardlines the other morning and I had to help our STL set backer paper in mini). They sometimes have a tendency to lollygag while doing so, but it's better than nothing.

my ETL AP and ETL SL sit in the AP office the entire time and do not a freaking thing while one of them are LOD... it drives me nuts because then one of them have the balls to call me "Team Lead ***** hows the reshop and zone going?" i respond " You tell me youre in the AP office just watching the cameras.." cant stand it... told my ETL HR and STL... said theyd keep an eye on it... which they migh as well of said "I am not going to do anything about it so you might as well stop complaining about it.."

My ETL-AP, even when she's LOD, only leaves 209 when she's absolutely required to (Guest Service, compactor, etc.) and when she takes a break/lunch.

 

[Avepico]

I once had it explained to me quite succinctly.

If a salaried leader is doing a job that a non-salaried TM can/should be doing, then that leader needs to take a look at why there is not a non-salaried TM doing it. If you understand that, you can get a better view of your leaderships performance. Whether we like it or not, this is the Target way, and apparently the government way.

Having said that, not all LOD's are created equally. There are those that just don't seem to have a connection with the team that actually working with them would bring, the nice middle, and the hard core working LOD's that probably need to spend more time on management.

 

[AssetsProtection]

My ETL's comeoutside and push carts with me. Your argument is invalid. JK but really they do.

 

[TargetOldTimer]

Great TEAM card to my hletl, who got on a ladder and assisted with the TV set. Loved working & laughing with you.....

 

[invictustaylor]

I once had it explained to me quite succinctly.

If a salaried leader is doing a job that a non-salaried TM can/should be doing, then that leader needs to take a look at why there is not a non-salaried TM doing it. If you understand that, you can get a better view of your leaderships performance. Whether we like it or not, this is the Target way, and apparently the government way.

Having said that, not all LOD's are created equally. There are those that just don't seem to have a connection with the team that actually working with them would bring, the nice middle, and the hard core working LOD's that probably need to spend more time on management.

Nowadays the problem isn't that the salaried person is doing the hourly work, while the hourly person is horsing around, it's that there are no hourly team members scheduled to do the work.

 

[commiecorvus]

Nowadays the problem isn't that the salaried person is doing the hourly work, while the hourly person is horsing around, it's that there are no hourly team members scheduled to do the work.

That's the rub.
There just aren't enough people for the supervisors to sit around and supervise.
They have to get in there and bust ass or the work isn't going to get done.