What I think is important to remember here is Target is not on the way up, it is on the way down. It lacks innovation and has completely wandered away from what made it a success to begin with. Great guest service, neat, clean and well stocked stores with cheap chic. Target is now slightly less staffed, less busy, and more expensive version of Walmart. You look at companies like Sears/K-mart and wonder how they ended up in the situation they are in. Then you look at Target and see it happening all over again. It is sad to see but, it is what it is.
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oath2order
Scary Socialist
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Consumed, step away from the koolaid. Consider this: A company that is forward-looking is going to be trying to expand, they seek new paths to profit. Instead, Target is contracting, they are eliminating stores, positions, benefits, pay, hours and everything else it can. What screams growth in that list? They are doing nothing to improve outlook, only reacting to failure by reducing expenditures. Once they run out of ways to cut, where does the profitability come? It sure won't be from sales.
You should try shopping at Target. The stores are a mess, the shelves are half empty, nobody is available to help, when you do find people they are rushed and never happy etc. Of course people are not supporting the company, look at the way they are payed and treated. They work hard and lose hours, lose benefits, get screwed on reviews, have positions removed, workload doubled etc. What possible reason could a person who gets 9 dollars an hour and 10 hours week have to be positive about the company. Why should Targets workers not treat the company just like it treats them? A company that has no loyalty to its workers will get the same in return. Sure you will have some who will go the extra mile, get used abused and burned out and then leave. That leaves Target with the people who are desperate enough to stay. And that is not a good thing.
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I like how he's gloating that TMs should just be okay giving away their hours whenever he sees fit just so Target can make a buck... Rofl.
Oh yeah and GOD FORBID TMs actually want to MAKE MONEY!!! Shame on those specialists for making so much money, I bet that $1.50 was really killing Spot. And Photo Specialists (which turned into Photo Lab Assistant...) were pretty important when Targets all had wet-labs.
Also way to assume that my store has poor leadership, I actually like most of my leaders very much. It is District and higher level leadership that I have a gripe with, because they usually seem to have attitudes like yours -- Don't worry I'm sure you'll be on your way up soon, have fun selling your dignity.
Oh yeah and GOD FORBID TMs actually want to MAKE MONEY!!! Shame on those specialists for making so much money, I bet that $1.50 was really killing Spot. And Photo Specialists (which turned into Photo Lab Assistant...) were pretty important when Targets all had wet-labs.
Also way to assume that my store has poor leadership, I actually like most of my leaders very much. It is District and higher level leadership that I have a gripe with, because they usually seem to have attitudes like yours -- Don't worry I'm sure you'll be on your way up soon, have fun selling your dignity.
You believe that is the reason I have a bridge I would like to sell you.
I came to this site to actually learn things that my store which is run badly would not , could not teach, so don't think I don't want my store to do better. I did. But you can't change bad management and an a company hell bent on squeezing the life out of the staff they do have.
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Photo and Cash Office require higher expertise which is why they were considered specialist positions and paid more. You can take any schmuck off the street and show them in 5 minutes how to push carts or ring people up, but those positions took a lot of training and knowledge. Don't get me wrong I'm not ragging on Cashiers/Cart Attendants, I think they are important and should get their fair share too. For what GSA's get paid to do Cash Office, is pretty crummy IMO, considering Bank Tellers make $11/hr which would be a position comparable to Cash Office. Throw on all the supervisory roles of GSA and Spot can keep their .50cents.
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- Sep 15, 2011
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I dont even want to get started on flexible fufillment. The salesfloor doesnt have to do anything but backroom now does and it prob eats up more payroll than a TM helping a guest on the floor. Just another good idea in theory horrible in practice and implementation by HQ.
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First, about 50% of FF product never gets purchased (at my store anyways), we just return it to stock 3 days later. Second, a MAJOR portion of our sales is based on impulse buys from guests walking by endcaps. FF makes it to where a guest can walk in the door and head straight to the GS desk without passing a single piece of merchandise. Additionally, it takes longer for a BRTM to pull and locate a My FA batch than it does for a salesfloor TM to help a guest find an item. Not only that, a salesfloor TM can engage the guest and try to suggest complimentary items to go with whatever the guest is looking for. That doesn't work nearly as well with FF. The guest just wants to get his item and leave.
The whole concept of FF screams "I used to work for an industrial/electrical supply warehouse and think that the business model can work for big box retail too!"
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Here's my problem @consumed TL :
I read every single thread, every post on this board and I've been doing it for many years.
I worked for the company for many years as well.
In that time I worked for good managers and bad managers so I think I have had a chance to see how they operate.
You have tried to explain how good management makes or breaks the store.
The problem is in all the threads I've followed and the time I worked, I'd say the percentages for leadership on the ETL run 30% good, 30% wildly mediocre, and 40% poor to bad.
From what I can tell this was not always the case but has become a trend with the hiring of younger college kids with little or no practical experience.
{Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know you worked your way up, I read the post -- I'm talking about the average ETL)
This is straight from Spot and seems to indicate a very poor system of leadership.
(Read the training thread if you want a real eye opener.)
If that's what you want to hang the handle for the success of the company than I'm afraid you're in big trouble.
People can't adapt or do better when the company gives them no room to do so.
They are being squeezed to the point of no return and telling to them to find jobs elsewhere is a cowards approach.
Many don't have other options because of the economy or conditions at home.
You and I come from a very different perspective on what a company owes its employees.
I tend to see it from more of the European prospective, where the employee has a stake in the company and the company isn't allowed to make money at the expense of its employees.
There needs to be employee representation on Spots board of directors like there are at Volkswagen.
Maybe then there would be some degree of fairness and the people on the top would have do some of the same kind of "adapting" that the people on the bottom have been having to do all this time.
I read every single thread, every post on this board and I've been doing it for many years.
I worked for the company for many years as well.
In that time I worked for good managers and bad managers so I think I have had a chance to see how they operate.
You have tried to explain how good management makes or breaks the store.
The problem is in all the threads I've followed and the time I worked, I'd say the percentages for leadership on the ETL run 30% good, 30% wildly mediocre, and 40% poor to bad.
From what I can tell this was not always the case but has become a trend with the hiring of younger college kids with little or no practical experience.
{Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know you worked your way up, I read the post -- I'm talking about the average ETL)
This is straight from Spot and seems to indicate a very poor system of leadership.
(Read the training thread if you want a real eye opener.)
If that's what you want to hang the handle for the success of the company than I'm afraid you're in big trouble.
People can't adapt or do better when the company gives them no room to do so.
They are being squeezed to the point of no return and telling to them to find jobs elsewhere is a cowards approach.
Many don't have other options because of the economy or conditions at home.
You and I come from a very different perspective on what a company owes its employees.
I tend to see it from more of the European prospective, where the employee has a stake in the company and the company isn't allowed to make money at the expense of its employees.
There needs to be employee representation on Spots board of directors like there are at Volkswagen.
Maybe then there would be some degree of fairness and the people on the top would have do some of the same kind of "adapting" that the people on the bottom have been having to do all this time.
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Loyalty to a company is one thing,but blind loyalty is another. @consumed TL If Target decided to take away all the ETL positions and turn it to TL duties with TL pay would you mind adapting to that if they give you the catch phrase its for the better of the company? I understand some of points you are trying to get across,but if you honestly believe that regular people do not have a problem losing hours,benefits, and pay you do not have the pulse of your team. I doubt the team sits there and goes "ok I only have 25 hours this week and 15 hours next week, let me work extra hard and try and get the 40 hour workload done each week." Any normal person will simply say I am not about to bust my ass to try and get all this done when I cant even get hours. Show me a team member who says otherwise and I will show you a liar😀
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Gutting the schedule definitely hurt my store today. There were hurting big time today and scrambling to cover shifts. That's what happens when you gut the schedule without thinking it through.
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@consumed TL
Yeah ETLs don't need all that money! What a waste! Lets just demote them to TLs for the better of the company.
Yeah ETLs don't need all that money! What a waste! Lets just demote them to TLs for the better of the company.
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- Jun 23, 2012
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Why do you assume I don't support Target? I'm unsure what their plan is to right the ship, and that's my complaint currently. Gregg is showing himself to be a short-sighted prick who's sucking the company dry before he retires(the sooner the better). Canada, LTO designers and "The Shops" are all wasting money that could help us actually run a store.
It frustrates me that my last 3 LOD shifts have consisted of me spending the entire night playing GSTL, or cart attendant, or zoning domestics because we don't have the payroll to schedule people or replace call outs. Yes, I ran the store from the parking lot last week. We had nobody in softlines last night because of a call in and we don't have the payroll to replace it. We've been having to turn the phone on night-ring daily when our fitting room takes breaks and lunches because we can't afford to pull the only SL TM off the floor for an hour. My guest survey scores are being affected by the lack of people, since the ones I do have are usually at the lanes helping my cashier out with backup.
I am the softlines TL. I have 1 opener(reshop), 1 mid(tasks, usually myself), and 1 closer(zone)- all 5 hour shifts. The week of march second I have 160 hours of workload to complete in SL alone and I'll be lucky to have 110 hours. Between FR and SL I have enough payroll to give all 9 TMs, including myself, 22 hours on a good week, so nobody's full-time anymore. I'm probably losing my best TM because of it since she was working for the insurance and now she has none. I'm thankful I took the time to build rapport with my team, because they are toughing it out for me. Every team in the store, except mine, has lost a few TMs due to lack of hours. This is why I question the company's direction, it's not hatred of target as you suspect, but because I care about my store and can barely run a brand department with what I am given. When I'm LOD, I see the other departments struggling just as mine is. The sad part is that it's not going to change, because according to my DTL we are a green store and he loves coming to visit(his actual, honest words).
I don't get having the team cut so slim. As for the new TL changes, I completely understand why they are doing it. Next year, I suspect we will lose our BR/IS TL because it could easily be folded into Flow. In fact, I expect FATL will get added into the role of GSTL. At that point we'd have 4 TLs(Flow, Presentation, SF, and GSTL), all key carriers. That's fine in my books, because TLs should be high performers that could someday promote to ETL, and getting them carrying keys and actually managing large teams would help prepare them. I agree with target eliminating TLs that were essentially higher paid TMs. You don't need to pay someone a TL wage to have them ticket clearance 40 hrs per week. I get those changes and have been the voice of reason in my store. But I can't justify a store that has no cart attendant until 7 pm(if at all), 1 cashier from 5-close, and 1 TM on each side of the store to zone.
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Don't worry you'll get your day where they eliminate your position and give you a firm handshake as they replace you with some straight out of college 22 year old who makes half of what you would.
Not to mention that while you clearly have a staggeringly high opinion of yourself (not even getting into deserved or not, I don't know you IRL), what happens if you reach a ceiling you simply can't cross and your position is being axed? Progressively fewer people are going to qualify for the next rung up the ladder, top-heavy hierarchies don't work (disregarding more democratic forms of leadership where employees have ownership stakes and such). What happens if the guy the next rung up decides he just plain doesn't like how you operate, or you've been with the company too long and cost the company too much money, or any of a dozen other reasons why you might not get that next promotion, meritorious or not.
Try and think about how you'd feel about your position getting axed and having to drop down a rung of the ladder be your only option. Doubt you will, but you might find some different feelings if you did.
Try and think about how you'd feel about your position getting axed and having to drop down a rung of the ladder be your only option. Doubt you will, but you might find some different feelings if you did.
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Nope! You will be made TL. Just like most of those specialists who just became TMs. What makes you think that your skillset makes you qualified for DTL or higher? Every TM/TL should know what you do, so have fun being one!
I actually agree with your stance. it is not a companies responsibility to do anything but makes a buck. If they want to be a great company that workers love and support and that the higher ups will do anything for their team, that is wonderful but they aren't obligated to do so. Spot owes nothing to me, you, or anyone else. I COMPLETELY agree with that position.
You're confident, but you seem to be a little too confident. When ETL goes away, where do you think they go? To TL. A step down in paygrade, rank, and perks. If a DTL position opens up, you're not going to jump your STL. He would get it, and MAYBE you would be moved to STL, maybe not. And that's if your STL got the DTL position. You can climb the ranks and you have, but you can also drop pretty quickly based on petty bullshit and politics.
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- Jul 23, 2013
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Knowing words like puerile is one thing, but feeling the necessity to use them in an online forum when it's irrelevant to do so is completely ridiculous. Just saying. One of my huge pet peeves.
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- Jun 8, 2011
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Spot is on a roller coaster, right now. Hours are being cut, again. Eventually, tm's & tl's will lose pay. Why doesn't spot just close the stores at 10pm, instead? I did ask that question & got laughed at by the Lod.
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There are times when a thread stops being productive and turns into a source of animosity for members of the board.
I think this one has reached that point and it would behoove us to move on.
I think this one has reached that point and it would behoove us to move on.
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