Pride merch

Selfish said:
You talk about both sides as if they're equally valid. If Target had existed in 1861, do you think they should have addressed "both sides" equally as well?
Click to expand...
I'm not going to turn this into a racial debate. You know that slavery isn't the same as Target selling Pride clothing.

Both sides in the current debate are valid, you just don't agree with my views the same way I don't agree with yours. That's all it is, beliefs and thoughts. No one is going to actual war over this and I am not going to force my beliefs on others.
 
IhateOPmodel said:
I'm not going to turn this into a racial debate. You know that slavery isn't the same as Target selling Pride clothing.

Both sides in the current debate are valid, you just don't agree with my views the same way I don't agree with yours. That's all it is, beliefs and thoughts. No one is going to actual war over this and I am not going to force my beliefs on others.
Click to expand...
Both sides are not valid, which was the point of the question. One side wants to express themselves and the other side doesn't want them to be able to. That's it, there's no nuance. There's no valid argument for oppression. Conservatives in multiple states are attacking transgender people and the LGBTQ+ community as a whole. Florida, Texas, Tennessee, etc.. are all but making it illegal to be trans. It may not feel like a war to you, but rest assured it does for them.

Target has sold this same merchandise before. It is not being shoved down anyone's throat. Yes, it may make people uncomfortable, but so do contraceptives, sex toys, and tampons -- all of which Target has sold for over a decade already.
 
IhateOPmodel said:
Jeez, extreme much?
Click to expand...
Not one bit.
Do you remember Pizzagate?
The Qanon guy walking into the pizza place and shooting it up because he was convinced kids were being tortured in the basement?
A basement that didn't fucking exist?
Some of the teachers who have been called groomers have also been doxed.
They have lost their jobs.
It's not hard to see one of these nutjobs attacking them.
We've had shootings in LGBTQ clubs that have taken dozens of lives.
This is not hyperbole.
 
oath2order said:
I live in North Colorado Springs, near Focus on The Family's headquarters.

They have their pride merch right at the front of the store.

IF THEY CAN DO IT WHY CAN'T OTHER COWARDLY STORES.

Also this store is so old they have the red aisle signs and red endcap headers and that red carpet.

But they also have modern stuff like that giant tree near entertainment. And track lighting.

OLD STYLE ELECTRONICS BOAT. Giant Our Generation focal and tree.
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I love Colorado Springs. I have family there. When I was younger we went there every year for Christmas.
 
1685658803167.png


1685658695613-png.14966


🤦‍♂️ what would sun tzu say about this situation?
 
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IhateOPmodel said:
Anything is possible, buddy.

People are uncomfortable and can choose to react to it however they want. I don't agree with the bomb threats, angry phone calls or people being mean to team members in the store. But if you don't want to shop at a store that you don't agree with then it's up to you.

How would you react if Target sold Trump merchandise and put a big display right in the front of the store? I'm seriously asking, please answer. I'm sure most people who disagreed would respond in a way much worse than those who negatively responded to pride.

I have worked for Target for almost 2 decades and I couldn't give a shit less about the pride merchandise in the past. I think they went a little far this year and I don't think they handled it correctly once people got upset. But I just work here and I stay in my lane. If I didn't work here and get a discount I wouldn't boycott target but I also wouldn't go out of my way to go either.

I have no issues with how others live their lives. I just don't want it shoved in my face. That's the way I feel about sexuality(I don't want to see PDA of any sort), politics and anything else you can think of. I can have a civil conversation with anyone as long as they share the same courtesy.
Click to expand...
BINGO
 
Selfish said:
Both sides are not valid, which was the point of the question. One side wants to express themselves and the other side doesn't want them to be able to. That's it, there's no nuance. There's no valid argument for oppression. Conservatives in multiple states are attacking transgender people and the LGBTQ+ community as a whole. Florida, Texas, Tennessee, etc.. are all but making it illegal to be trans. It may not feel like a war to you, but rest assured it does for them.

Target has sold this same merchandise before. It is not being shoved down anyone's throat. Yes, it may make people uncomfortable, but so do contraceptives, sex toys, and tampons -- all of which Target has sold for over a decade already.
Click to expand...
Lets not simplify the issue and ignore nuance.
There have always and will always be the extreme outliers.
For the 95% of normal people in the middle, nobody had any real issue with the trans community existing. Plenty of popular characters and films based on that community has always existed.
The first major issue people had with the trans issue is arguing for/trying to legalize bioligical men entering womens bathrooms.
The big big issue that has turned half or more of the 95% of people formerly in the middle, is pushing the topic on children. It crossed the line for alot of people when they have dragqueens entering 6 year old storytimes, etc. etc.
Its the same issue athiests had/have with religion being pushed on their children in places like school.

The topic is different, but the reason for the issue is the same as it always has been.
Its not an issue of censoring opposing views or personal expression, but of artificially trying to influence children who are vulnerable and suggestible about the topic of SEX. Quite litteraly grooming.

My brother is biologically female. I have zero issues with him living his life wearing jeans and a tshirt and dating women if he wants. But if he came to my children dressed in drag and started telling them they should consider cutting their boobs/penises off because maybe they enjoy things that arent purely masculine/feminine, i would beat the shit out of him.

I think this boycott against Target is silly, and I enjoy seeing Target getting hate over going back on their initial choice and proving once and for all they dont actually give a shit.

But by painting the other side as evil immoral fascists and yourself as unfallible and almost righteous in your crusade, you end up on the same exact path that religions take.

I am not evil for not wanting peoples bedroom habits being discussed with children under 13. I dont care that Target sold tuck friendly swim suits. I think the boycott is stupid. I do not fall under your strawman umbrella.
 
Luck said:
Lets not simplify the issue and ignore nuance.
There have always and will always be the extreme outliers.
For the 95% of normal people in the middle, nobody had any real issue with the trans community existing. Plenty of popular characters and films based on that community has always existed.
The first major issue people had with the trans issue is arguing for/trying to legalize bioligical men entering womens bathrooms.
The big big issue that has turned half or more of the 95% of people formerly in the middle, is pushing the topic on children. It crossed the line for alot of people when they have dragqueens entering 6 year old storytimes, etc. etc.
Its the same issue athiests had/have with religion being pushed on their children in places like school.

The topic is different, but the reason for the issue is the same as it always has been.
Its not an issue of censoring opposing views or personal expression, but of artificially trying to influence children who are vulnerable and suggestible about the topic of SEX. Quite litteraly grooming.

My brother is biologically female. I have zero issues with him living his life wearing jeans and a tshirt and dating women if he wants. But if he came to my children dressed in drag and started telling them they should consider cutting their boobs/penises off because maybe they enjoy things that arent purely masculine/feminine, i would beat the shit out of him.

I think this boycott against Target is silly, and I enjoy seeing Target getting hate over going back on their initial choice and proving once and for all they dont actually give a shit.

But by painting the other side as evil immoral fascists and yourself as unfallible and almost righteous in your crusade, you end up on the same exact path that religions take.

I am not evil for not wanting peoples bedroom habits being discussed with children under 13. I dont care that Target sold tuck friendly swim suits. I think the boycott is stupid. I do not fall under your strawman umbrella.
Click to expand...

It looks like you are the one ignoring nuance here.
You went from reasonable to straight up crazy in the space of a couple of paragraphs.
The drag queen story hours have nothing to do with sex.
It's someone in a costume reading books to kids.
The kids parents are the ones bringing them to the story hours.
I used to dress up as Amelia Bedelia or Grover to read to the kids at the bookstore I worked at.
The kids loved it and so did the parents.
Pro tip, do short books as Grover, the voice kills your throat.

I sure hope you brother knows how you feel about him being around your kids.
Because if one of them is trans and they go to their Uncle for advice, because who better, are you going to beat him up?
That is some fucked up family dynamics.

Gender is not sex.
Who you sleep with is not your gender expression.
The two things are not the same.
It's scientific fact, not an opinion where there are two sides.
Gender is a spectrum which includes nonbinary as is sexual attraction which includes ACE.
Both are social constructs.
Sex is generally binary but not totally.
There are as many people who are intersex i.e. having a mixture of sexes, as there are redheads.

And if someone wants to tell me that being trans is evil, then yes I am going to think that someone is a bad person.
If someone tells me my daughter and adopted granddaughter are going to burn in hell for being gay I'm going to tell them to go fuck themselves.
If they say any of my LGBTQ+ friends and family are groomers, I'm going to take that personally.
I don't consider myself to be righteous or infallible because I take that stand.
I take that stand because that's what you do for people you genuinely care about.
 
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Luck said:
Lets not simplify the issue and ignore nuance.
There have always and will always be the extreme outliers.
For the 95% of normal people in the middle, nobody had any real issue with the trans community existing. Plenty of popular characters and films based on that community has always existed.
The first major issue people had with the trans issue is arguing for/trying to legalize bioligical men entering womens bathrooms.
The big big issue that has turned half or more of the 95% of people formerly in the middle, is pushing the topic on children. It crossed the line for alot of people when they have dragqueens entering 6 year old storytimes, etc. etc.
Its the same issue athiests had/have with religion being pushed on their children in places like school.

The topic is different, but the reason for the issue is the same as it always has been.
Its not an issue of censoring opposing views or personal expression, but of artificially trying to influence children who are vulnerable and suggestible about the topic of SEX. Quite litteraly grooming.

My brother is biologically female. I have zero issues with him living his life wearing jeans and a tshirt and dating women if he wants. But if he came to my children dressed in drag and started telling them they should consider cutting their boobs/penises off because maybe they enjoy things that arent purely masculine/feminine, i would beat the shit out of him.

I think this boycott against Target is silly, and I enjoy seeing Target getting hate over going back on their initial choice and proving once and for all they dont actually give a shit.

But by painting the other side as evil immoral fascists and yourself as unfallible and almost righteous in your crusade, you end up on the same exact path that religions take.

I am not evil for not wanting peoples bedroom habits being discussed with children under 13. I dont care that Target sold tuck friendly swim suits. I think the boycott is stupid. I do not fall under your strawman umbrella.
Click to expand...
Luck. This is exactly what I was talking about upthread, about doing research before spreading falsehoods.

Where did you hear that drag queens are telling children to consider cutting their body parts off? I'm a huge fan of drag and drag queens - I need names, because I certainly don't want to support anyone who would tell a child to cut their penis off.

But you won't provide me with a name, because you can't, because THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN. And if you believe it did or does, well you done lost your damn mind.

FYI, drag queens and trans individuals are two separate things. Drag is a performance art, not a gender identity. Yes, there are trans women and men who do drag, just as there are cisgendered men and women who do drag.

Please educate yourself.
 
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Luck said:
Lets not simplify the issue and ignore nuance.
There have always and will always be the extreme outliers.
For the 95% of normal people in the middle, nobody had any real issue with the trans community existing. Plenty of popular characters and films based on that community has always existed.
The first major issue people had with the trans issue is arguing for/trying to legalize bioligical men entering womens bathrooms.
The big big issue that has turned half or more of the 95% of people formerly in the middle, is pushing the topic on children. It crossed the line for alot of people when they have dragqueens entering 6 year old storytimes, etc. etc.
Its the same issue athiests had/have with religion being pushed on their children in places like school.

The topic is different, but the reason for the issue is the same as it always has been.
Its not an issue of censoring opposing views or personal expression, but of artificially trying to influence children who are vulnerable and suggestible about the topic of SEX. Quite litteraly grooming.

My brother is biologically female. I have zero issues with him living his life wearing jeans and a tshirt and dating women if he wants. But if he came to my children dressed in drag and started telling them they should consider cutting their boobs/penises off because maybe they enjoy things that arent purely masculine/feminine, i would beat the shit out of him.

I think this boycott against Target is silly, and I enjoy seeing Target getting hate over going back on their initial choice and proving once and for all they dont actually give a shit.

But by painting the other side as evil immoral fascists and yourself as unfallible and almost righteous in your crusade, you end up on the same exact path that religions take.

I am not evil for not wanting peoples bedroom habits being discussed with children under 13. I dont care that Target sold tuck friendly swim suits. I think the boycott is stupid. I do not fall under your strawman umbrella.
Click to expand...
Get help. This is deeply disturbing and I feel really bad for your brother.
 
The Dude Abides said:
Get help. This is deeply disturbing and I feel really bad for your brother.
Click to expand...
Why would you feel bad for someone who has a loving family that accepts his decision to live his life openly?

I would also beat the shit out of a biologically male brother that tried to teach my children about sex. It has nothing to do with being straight, gay, or trans. But being trans does NOT give you a pass to force sex upon children.
happygoth said:
Where did you hear that drag queens are telling children to consider cutting their body parts off? I'm a huge fan of drag and drag queens - I need names, because I certainly don't want to support anyone who would tell a child to cut their penis off.
Click to expand...
I fully admit I made my own strawman argument there.
commiecorvus said:
The drag queen story hours have nothing to do with sex.
It's someone in a costume reading books to kids.

Gender is not sex.
Who you sleep with is not your gender expression.
The two things are not the same.
It's scientific fact, not an opinion where there are two sides.
Gender is a spectrum which includes nonbinary as is sexual attraction which includes ACE.
Both are social constructs.
Sex is generally binary but not totally.
There are as many people who are intersex i.e. having a mixture of sexes, as there are redheads.
Click to expand...
Correct. There is nothing wrong with trans people. I do not deny their existence. I full believe in accepting them. Sex is so far removed from procreation we have people that get horny looking about balloon animals so I could care less about sexual orientation either.

Let me reitterate that the issue that most central non-extremists have started to have is that for some reason some people seem to have begun beleiving it is okay to take advantage of the acceptance movement in order to force the topic of sex on children.
I would not let a straight cis man ask my daughter if she liked boys or tried to explain to her she could also be atracted to girls either. I sure as hell wont let a trans man or woman do it. Except then these pedophiles (not all trans indivuduals, but the ones in that do do these things) hide behind the excuse of transphobia to defend their grooming tactics.
And then the generally politically left rally behind these trans people to blindly defend them rather than facing that some of them are bad people because bad people exists everywhere and in all groups.

The same way the poltically right rallies behind racist cops. Because god forbid we all take a step back and admit when bad people abuse their status and work to address the problem rather than call the other group evil. In fact its funny how so many of these posts read exactly the same as the riots against Target when police brutality occured. The right would blindly defend the cops and call the rioters and people making threats evil. Ignoring the issues the left presented.

So the 95% of mostly centrally viewing people get pushed further and further to the extreme on both sides. Its all so tiring.
 
Luck said:
And then the generally politically left rally behind these trans people to blindly defend them rather than facing that some of them are bad people because bad people exists everywhere and in all groups.
Click to expand...
Some problems with this. For one, "left leaning people" do NOT blindly defend pedophiles like you have tried to imply. This once again just falls into the same pizzagate/QAnon quackery discussed earlier. Second, of course bad people exist everywhere, but the problem is that there is now a movement that tries to paint ALL transgender people as pedophiles, which is flat out not how it is at all. And unfortunately, the strawman argument about trans people talking to children about sexual things shows that you have fallen into this trap. Despite what bigots may try to tell you, this happens so infrequently that it may as well be considered almost never. I don't believe you are intentionally a hateful person, but this smells of the same rhetoric used by people who are just flat out transphobic
 
Luck said:
Why would you feel bad for someone who has a loving family that accepts his decision to live his life openly?

I would also beat the shit out of a biologically male brother that tried to teach my children about sex. It has nothing to do with being straight, gay, or trans. But being trans does NOT give you a pass to force sex upon children.

I fully admit I made my own strawman argument there.

Correct. There is nothing wrong with trans people. I do not deny their existence. I full believe in accepting them. Sex is so far removed from procreation we have people that get horny looking about balloon animals so I could care less about sexual orientation either.

Let me reitterate that the issue that most central non-extremists have started to have is that for some reason some people seem to have begun beleiving it is okay to take advantage of the acceptance movement in order to force the topic of sex on children.
I would not let a straight cis man ask my daughter if she liked boys or tried to explain to her she could also be atracted to girls either. I sure as hell wont let a trans man or woman do it. Except then these pedophiles (not all trans indivuduals, but the ones in that do do these things) hide behind the excuse of transphobia to defend their grooming tactics.
And then the generally politically left rally behind these trans people to blindly defend them rather than facing that some of them are bad people because bad people exists everywhere and in all groups.

The same way the poltically right rallies behind racist cops. Because god forbid we all take a step back and admit when bad people abuse their status and work to address the problem rather than call the other group evil. In fact its funny how so many of these posts read exactly the same as the riots against Target when police brutality occured. The right would blindly defend the cops and call the rioters and people making threats evil. Ignoring the issues the left presented.

So the 95% of mostly centrally viewing people get pushed further and further to the extreme on both sides. Its all so tiring.
Click to expand...

It may be tiring for you but it is getting to be unlivable for trans folk.
There are over 300 anti trans bills being pushed through in different states.
In Florida ADULTS can't get transition care.
This has nothing to do with protecting kids.
This is a direct attack on trans folk altogether.
And it isn't out on the streets.
This isn't a bunch of people throwing rocks, this is lawmakers fucking trans people's lives beyond repair.
That is fucking evil.
There is no excuse.

And I repeat most of the pediphiles are family members and straight.
They are not trans or drag queens.
They are priests or boy scout troop leaders.
Pediphiles do not draw attention to themselves.
They are people you trust, maybe members of your family but usually straight.

Just because my daughter talks about her wife, she is not fucking grooming.
Kids knowing about the variety of people in the world does not hurt them.
In fact it makes their life better, especially if they turn out to be LGBTQ+.
And there is a good chance that may happen.
Gen Z has the highest rate of any generation so far of identifying as LGBTQ+.
Because they aren't afraid and have a better much better understanding of themselves then I did at that age.

And they also know there are a bunch of us old Gen Xers standing behind them saying, "Do not fucking mess with my gay grandkids or I will be fucking with you."
 
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sunnydays said:
what in the smoking unholy fuck is this
Click to expand...

It's a classic poisoning the well.
Of course there are bad people in every group, we all know that.
That doesn't mean we don't stand up to protect the rights and safety of minorities and the people we love because there might be a bad person in that group.
That is fucking nonsense.
I stand for people who can't defend themselves.
I stand for anyone who needs someone at their back.
I fight for people who don't have the same rights I do as a cishet #ffffff old dude.
 

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