Archived STL at...25?!? (rant)

[The Dude Abides]

For me personally age doesn't bother me. What irks me is the corporate world in general thinking a person with a degree , brought in from outside a company, will do a better job than someone who worked their way up thru the ranks.

Exactly! Just because you have a degree doesn't automatically mean that you are a great leader.

Working at Target for 1000000 years does not make you a great leader also. I know countless TLs with no degrees who have been there for years who know Target inside and out but the things they say on the side, the complaining they do regardless of how hard they work negatively impacts them.

I was a hard working young hot shot who eventually graduated college but I had this attitude that Target owed me an ETL spot for all my years of service and hard work. I did the complaining on the side I bad mouthed ideas I thought were stupid to team members when I was their TL. All the stuff a true leader would not do. Sure I worked hard had the nicest looking departments got stuff done but I wasn't a true leader at the time. Eventually my attitude despite my hard work ethic burned my bridges at Target for ever doing anything more than I was doing at the time of the bridge burning. I have since grown up out of my 20's and now finally feel I am ready for the ETL responsibilities. I have found a job outside of retail that I love and now I am doing the equivalent of an ETLs roles in the non retail world. Yet there were plenty of say the right thing and be Mr. & Mrs Target who I could run circles around who got promoted to ETL because they were leaders and could say and do the right thing even though in terms of pushing freight or zoning or doing whatever they were not the best. Long story short age is just a number and being a certain age does or does not make you a great leader. For me the light switched on around 28. For others it might be earlier for others it may never come.

Saying the right thing =/= being a great leader.

 

[Burlseveryday]

One of my favorite ETLs was 23. He started when he was 17 as a cart attendant, was a TL while in college and was promoted to ETL Hardlines after he graduated. He would put in 80 hour weeks to get the work done if he had to. If he kept the closing SF team late, he was always right next to them facing. Personally, I think he would've been a great STL. He was always professional but he wasn't a yes man and that's what held him back. Now he has a job at another company where his skills are valued and target replaced him with a 22 y/o who's first job ever was ETL at Target. As others have said, experience>>>age

 

[Mhugh220]

I think you should be forced to pay your dues. That means you work your way up to your promotion.

This is how the military does it and most of those forced into management positions in the military weren't meant to lead. Time does not equal deserved promotion. Experience does not make a person a good leader. Whether you got your education from school or from experience, Leaders make things happen! I've seen great ETLs/STLs, some had degrees, some didn't. Some were 21 some were 40.

I did the complaining on the side I bad mouthed ideas I thought were stupid to team members when I was their TL. All the stuff a true leader would not do. Long story short age is just a number and being a certain age does or does not make you a great leader. For me the light switched on around 28. For others it might be earlier for others it may never come.

This can hold anyone back from being promoted. For internal hires, drink the punch. It might taste like shit but the more you drink the further you will progress.

 

[Megaparsec]

That's nothing. One time I had a doctor who was only 14!

 

[tgtguy]

For me personally age doesn't bother me. What irks me is the corporate world in general thinking a person with a degree , brought in from outside a company, will do a better job than someone who worked their way up thru the ranks.

Exactly! Just because you have a degree doesn't automatically mean that you are a great leader.

Working at Target for 1000000 years does not make you a great leader also. I know countless TLs with no degrees who have been there for years who know Target inside and out but the things they say on the side, the complaining they do regardless of how hard they work negatively impacts them.

I was a hard working young hot shot who eventually graduated college but I had this attitude that Target owed me an ETL spot for all my years of service and hard work. I did the complaining on the side I bad mouthed ideas I thought were stupid to team members when I was their TL. All the stuff a true leader would not do. Sure I worked hard had the nicest looking departments got stuff done but I wasn't a true leader at the time. Eventually my attitude despite my hard work ethic burned my bridges at Target for ever doing anything more than I was doing at the time of the bridge burning. I have since grown up out of my 20's and now finally feel I am ready for the ETL responsibilities. I have found a job outside of retail that I love and now I am doing the equivalent of an ETLs roles in the non retail world. Yet there were plenty of say the right thing and be Mr. & Mrs Target who I could run circles around who got promoted to ETL because they were leaders and could say and do the right thing even though in terms of pushing freight or zoning or doing whatever they were not the best. Long story short age is just a number and being a certain age does or does not make you a great leader. For me the light switched on around 28. For others it might be earlier for others it may never come.

To me being a great leader isn't about having a college degree or not...or even how many years you have been with the company...it has to do with your leadership skills AND if you are willing to listen to others and their feedback. If you are new to the company and you are leading a team of ppl who have been there for years...guess what...they have some insight into things ask them...don't think just because you are a etl or stl that you are so high and mighty you cant ask them for advice/feedback. 9 times out 10 they can be a wealth of knowledge....if only they would ask. I don't care if you have a degree or how old you are...just use some common sense and if you don't know something ask.

 

[paidtosmile]

I just wish they would eliminate the requirement of a four year degree.. If you have good applicants with various management/business degrees, then by all means make them an ETL, but I don't think they should automatically count out SeniorTL's and other hourly positions for the sole reason of them not having a bachelors degree.

 

[tgtguy]

I just wish they would eliminate the requirement of a four year degree.. If you have good applicants with various management/business degrees, then by all means make them an ETL, but I don't think they should automatically count out SeniorTL's and other hourly positions for the sole reason of them not having a bachelors degree.

I agree with you 110%. We ( spot) lose a lot of good people because of that. I know our store has .

 

[Guest]

Experience should matter. More team members would respect an ETL that worked their way up and proved they were worthy rather than a person just coming and being an ETL.

 

[looseseal]

I've had three STLs so far, all 3o or under. Our current STL (29) is a good one, and we're fortunate. She really knows her stuff. People-wise, my first one was best. Second one wasn't around long for reasons, but she seemed like she knew her stuff too. Our current group of ETLs isn't that young. Two are in their 40s I think, and our youngest one is 27. The youngest is one of the fresh out of college ones, but I think he's deviation from that stereotype. He works his ass off alongside the team, and a lot of times he's there just as late if not later than the mid LOD. We've had other ETLs straight from college that were awful, and another who has since left for a different store, and is on his way to becoming an STL from what I've heard... We all loved that one and miss him a lot.

I think the bottom line is age doesn't define your ability to lead... but neither does a college degree. Imagine how the entire culture and internal perception of Target would change for us if internal promotions were an actual thing, and not just a carrot dangling from a stick? I really think that would help the company soar again. Granted, I'm not that emotionally invested anymore because I know once I graduate I'm (hopefully) out of here for good. One can dream though...

 

[The Dude Abides]

I've had three STLs so far, all 3o or under. Our current STL (29) is a good one, and we're fortunate. She really knows her stuff. People-wise, my first one was best. Second one wasn't around long for reasons, but she seemed like she knew her stuff too. Our current group of ETLs isn't that young. Two are in their 40s I think, and our youngest one is 27. The youngest is one of the fresh out of college ones, but I think he's deviation from that stereotype. He works his ass off alongside the team, and a lot of times he's there just as late if not later than the mid LOD. We've had other ETLs straight from college that were awful, and another who has since left for a different store, and is on his way to becoming an STL from what I've heard... We all loved that one and miss him a lot.

I think the bottom line is age doesn't define your ability to lead... but neither does a college degree. Imagine how the entire culture and internal perception of Target would change for us if internal promotions were an actual thing, and not just a carrot dangling from a stick? I really think that would help the company soar again. Granted, I'm not that emotionally invested anymore because I know once I graduate I'm (hopefully) out of here for good. One can dream though...

That is one of the major issues this company faces. The overwhelming majority of it's employees feels there is absolutely no way to promote internally. Most team members feel like they have little chance to become a team leader once they figure out the carrot dangling on a stick keeps being pulled back. In turn most team leaders and seniors knows they will never become an ETL as they watch dozens of carbon copy fresh out of college hires flame out. Many of these people have ingrained loyalty to the company or at least they would if they weren't burned so many times over by the inept leadership this company hires. This leads to a workforce which is the face of our company that has no motivation to go above and beyond. It leads to a very underwhelming experience for many of our guests. As a GSA I spend a significant part of my day fixing problems my coworkers create due to lack of motivation and disinterest. While it is frustrating to me, I find it tough to blame them because why would they put in above average effort when it won't be reflected in their annual raises, it won't help their ability to promote within and it won't get them anything other than token "recognition" from their existing leadership team

I've been with this company for less than a decade and in my store alone I have seen roughly 20 ETLs flame out and leave the company while only 3 have promoted within the company. At no point in time have we had the same executive leadership team last an entire year together.

 

[sher]

All of my ETLs except the two newest ones worked their way up. The ones they replaced, I believe only one worked his way up. One was fired. One was promoted a year or two ago. Another ETL who left recently (he wasn't replaced because we no longer have an ETL hl) had been with target for a jillion years as well.
I don't think either side is better, tbh. It's really a lesser of two evils situation.

My stl is apparently 40, has been with target for 5 years and has 10+ years management experience in other companies. I did some linkedin sleuthing.

If all managers were to start from the bottom, where did the first managers come from? I'm not serious.

Idk why anyone would even wanna move up, though. Ignoring the pay difference, the only thing about TL-ship that I'm jealous of is the every other weekend off bit.

 

[paidtosmile]

We have one ETL who is amazing. She was a team member for 6 years (last two years of high school and all four years of college) and she's very well respected for that! She's also a top performer in our district, too. There is still some hope haha

 

[salesfloor10]

That is one of the major issues this company faces. The overwhelming majority of it's employees feels there is absolutely no way to promote internally. Most team members feel like they have little chance to become a team leader once they figure out the carrot dangling on a stick keeps being pulled back. In turn most team leaders and seniors knows they will never become an ETL as they watch dozens of carbon copy fresh out of college hires flame out. Many of these people have ingrained loyalty to the company or at least they would if they weren't burned so many times over by the inept leadership this company hires. This leads to a workforce which is the face of our company that has no motivation to go above and beyond. It leads to a very underwhelming experience for many of our guests.

THIS!!!
I've seen so many fresh out of college ETLs come in, and meanwhile, I'm a SrTL with a degree. My hope of becoming an ETL is fading fast.

All while Target prefers to hire ETLs right out of college that look like they're 14 years old.

 

[masterofalltrades]

Well lets be honest. It is no secret Target is not a company on the way up. Your not going to get the creme of the crop anymore who are hoping to jump into and up and coming company. Your going to get whatever is left. Their was a time when you could not come to Target from the outside to become an STL. You had to pay your does as an ETL in every area. By the time you became and STL you knew how to run a store from day 1. Now you walk into a store as a new STL and have to be taught on the job. I remember when a DTL was all knowing. They knew Target and the knew how to drive buisiness. Every visit you would learn something new. They expected Team Leads to be able to justify every end cap based on sales and profit margins. Now a DTL is just somebody who follows a check list and can recite best practice. Leadership at Target is a thing of the past.

Why did they even change this...it seems like hiring straight from College with ZERO experience is a TERRIBLE idea.

Thats 3 out of 5 of my etls. 1 doesnt count hes etl ap. So pretty much eveey ones quitting at my store, and morale is at a all time low

 

[tgtguy]

Morale is down in my store as well...we have lost some great team members in the last year.

 

[AllThingsTarget101]

I don't think a degree makes anyone a better leader or even a better team member and it definitely doesn't make you a better person. Working at Target or any employer doesn't give you any of that either. Some people are naturally great leaders, like my mentor whose 24 and going through STL interviews next month. Other people, like myself and I'm sure many people on this site, have to work every day to be a great leader. The wealth of knowledge on the breakroom helps me grow and learn everyday, but debates like this are never ending and I hope one day Target opens up more to promoting those great leaders without degrees to executive positions. Many of you here, with or without a degree, I think would be great leaders just by your posts day in and day out.

 

[konk]

No exec has ever been promoted at my store. Only STLs have been fired. Six ETLs have quit.

 

[WhyYouNoVibing]

My STL is 60 years old, while, my DTL is 27.

 

[whippingboy]

Don't let that degree requirement fool you. I've seen internal Team Leads get promoted to ETL minus the degree. She didn't talk the talk, either - most things out of her mouth were "eff this, and eff that" - which made her likeable by many team members. My guess is the STL can recommend whomever they think is most qualified as long as they can pass the interviews, they're good to go.

 

[Baristar]

At my store, we just got a new ETL-GE. When she introduced herself to me, she claimed she'd worked with another company "for a long time," but she looks like she cannot be much older than 25.

This past weekend, my state had a Tax-Free Weekend on many items for back-to-school shopping, and the store was running out of bags AND receipt tape. Apparently Ms. ETL-GE had never figured out that you need to order extra before big sales weekends.

I'm a college student myself, so I have nothing against capable young adults being leaders when they're qualified. But the GSTL and even several of the GSAs are very competent, and could've slipped into the ETL-GE position much more smoothly than our current one.

The only place Target seems to like to promote from within is at corporate in Minneapolis.

 

[oath2order]

The only place Target seems to like to promote from within is at corporate in Minneapolis.

Yeah well the only reason Target promotes from within at corporate in Minneapolis is because over there, there's a lot of sucking up and ass-kissing.

Basically corporate is a giant circle jerk of ass-kissing.