Archived Team leader to ETL

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StateofTarget said:
Um... "what you went to school for" doesn't really matter. Most jobs (unless they are highly technical, like chemist or computer programmer) only require that you have a degree in anything. So that really shouldn't matter.

If you have a degree, why wouldn't you just apply for ETL when you came back?

Also, how are you paying your bills *and* massive student loans on a TM wage?
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My degree is a social sciences degree/minor in education and the minor actually took up most of my credits so it's pretty specific.
I applied for ETL but was seen as a better fit for TL (at least right now).
I don't have student loans, fortunately.
 
Theyre hiring a lot of college grads as TLs that are supposed to be high potentials to be ETLs. In my district theres been a huge push to have high potential TLs. At my store there will be 4 TLs (myself included) getting a bachelors degree by Dec'13.
 
rocnrach said:
My degree is a social sciences degree/minor in education and the minor actually took up most of my credits so it's pretty specific.
I applied for ETL but was seen as a better fit for TL (at least right now).
I don't have student loans, fortunately.
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Again, I don't understand the logic behind this.

You said you applied for ETL, but were hired as a TL. That means you were coming from outside the company obviously looking for a job paying 50K, but instead got a job paying 20-25K. (If you weren't looking for a 50K job then you wouldn't have been putting in for one)

Since you were already outside the company, why not just apply at a competitor instead of accepting the low ball offer of TL? (Wal-mart, best buy, etc.) All of them hire assistant store managers (their version of an ETL) out of college for about 50K also. Plus a social science degree is good for all kinds of high paying government jobs in agencies like social services.

For some reason, if you really wanted Target, you could have just put in 6 months making 50K at wal-mart and then applied again at Target. With your newly gained experience they would likely feel you were a good fit for ETL at that point.

Now you are stuck at Target as a TL, and who knows when the hell they will promote you to ETL. (or if they ever even really will) I have seen people get told they were high potential for promotion and five years later they were still waiting.

Even now you could probably get a 50K job as an assistant store manager someplace else. Why stick around in a job that requires a high school diploma?

I am seriously trying to understand. If I had a bachelors degree when I was a TL, my ass would have defected to wal-mart, best buy, etc. $25,000 more a year to basically put on a different color shirt every day? Hell yes....
 
GlobalTL123 said:
Theyre hiring a lot of college grads as TLs that are supposed to be high potentials to be ETLs. In my district theres been a huge push to have high potential TLs. At my store there will be 4 TLs (myself included) getting a bachelors degree by Dec'13.
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But why would people accept the job if they pull a bait and switch like that? I mean, Target is posting for an ETL job. People apply for an ETL job expecting to be hired as an ETL.

I mean to me, that is like I walked in to Target and applied to be a sales floor TL. Then suddenly in the interview they pull a bait and switch and tell me they are going to hire me as a cart attendant. Uh... no?

At that point, why not just say "No thanks, not what I am looking for at the moment. I will apply back for ETL later." and walk out the door?

Not only would it piss me off that they pulled a bait and switch, but people are acting like you have to say YES to whatever they offer you.

If it was the difference in say, a cashier versus a sales floor TM - well, I can understand. That isn't a huge deal. You are talking same benefits, basically 25 cent pay difference, etc.

But damn.... ETL to TL is a *huge* downgrade. That is like going in to buy a Ferrari and driving out with a Ford Ranger.

By accepting TL even though you applied for ETL, you are taking an instant 25-40K pay cut. (probably 40K if you have experience and negotiate well) That is freakin' huge people. Plus you are taking a cut in benefits. Plus you are also hurting your long term career... ETL looks way better on your working history than TL. Furthermore, there is no guarantee they will ever promote you to ETL.... and even if they do, it could be years later. I would rather take my degree, go to another company, and start making 50K right away instead of possible wasting years of my life. If I really wanted Target, I would just apply for Target again after I got a job someplace else for 50K.

Anyway, point is.... if I had a bachelors degree, applied for ETL, and they turned around and suddenly told me TL.... hell no. I would walk.
 
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It may depend on job openings. I had a tm with 2 degrees, went to srtl to now etl. Because we had no tl or etl openings ebbs they were hired.
 
Hardlinesmaster said:
It may depend on job openings. I had a tm with 2 degrees, went to srtl to now etl. Because we had no tl or etl openings ebbs they were hired.
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Yea, but if that is true then how are they offering people who applied for ETL jobs TL jobs?

If you go on the Target careers web site - the salaried management application process is similiar to the hourly process - if they don't have an opening you can not apply for the job. So if they don't actually have ETL openings, then they wouldn't post the job to begin with.... they would just post an opening for TLs.

See what I mean? It makes no sense what people are saying.... that people are applying for ETL, but are being hired as TL. The application web site won't let you apply for a job unless there is actually a vacancy. So why post an ETL vacancy when there is no ETL vacancy? Why not just post a TL vacancy?
 
GlobalTL123 said:
The few college grads that accepted TL positions were told they didnt have enough leadership experience thats why they got hired as TLs instead, 1 has already been promoted to etl ap after a year.
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That doesn't make sense either. Target routinely hires new college grads with zero work experience and thus zero leadership experience. In fact, 90% of the ETLs hired at my store during pretty much all the years I worked there had zero work/leadership experience. They came directly out of college.

So that doesn't make sense either. Why hire tons of ETLs company-wide with no work/leadership experience, but then tell other college grads they need work/leadership experience? That isn't logical.

Something else must be going on.
 
Yeah i think something else is going on too. But the college grads getting hired make a lot more than a tl who gets promoted from within or an external without a degree. In my district TL starts at 11.25 and these people get 14.50-16.00 an hour. Same as an executive intern i think.
 
GlobalTL123 said:
Yeah i think something else is going on too. But the college grads getting hired make a lot more than a tl who gets promoted from within or an external without a degree. In my district TL starts at 11.25 and these people get 14.50-16.00 an hour. Same as an executive intern i think.
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College grads being hired as ETLs are getting paid *way* more than 14.50/hour.....

Most of them start at 50K, which translates to $26/hour for assuming they work 40 hour weeks, or about $21/hour assuming they work 50 hour weeks. So basically the pay difference between TL and ETL is huge. It is not like going from cashier to flow. We are not talking 50 cents more an hour here. We are talking $10-15/hour difference.

Plus they get better benefits, don't have to do much physical work, etc.
 
Yeah i can see what you are saying but the reality is just because you have a degree doesnt mean your going to get a high paying job right away. most have a degree for teaching and education, in my part of the country there are no jobs in that field and they are being cut and laid off. I think most people just want a pay check and when something better comes along they will leave. In my opinion i think its stupid they require degrees for etls because they too leave all the time when something better comes along.
 
I think you guys are missing the fact that a TL/Sr.TL has the potential to make more money than a NIR ETL.. and TL's only put in 40hrs a week. When you calculate all the hrs ETL's put in, many times an excess of 50hrs+ a week (esp. during 4th quarter 14-16hrs), the actual hourly pay is garbage. Most ETL's get into the role with the idea of having more earning potential in the future (versus an hourly tl).. but obviously you have to trade your personal life in return. I personally would rather be a PG17 Sr.TL making over $20/hr and getting paid Time&Half after 40 if they need my services, rather than being salaried. Plus, after a certain amount of income, more money doesn't make you any happier.. then it's all about having time for yourself/family.. 40hrs/week is more than enough time of work..
 
SeniorAP said:
I think you guys are missing the fact that a TL/Sr.TL has the potential to make more money than a NIR ETL.. and TL's only put in 40hrs a week. When you calculate all the hrs ETL's put in, many times an excess of 50hrs+ a week (esp. during 4th quarter 14-16hrs), the actual hourly pay is garbage. Most ETL's get into the role with the idea of having more earning potential in the future (versus an hourly tl).. but obviously you have to trade your personal life in return. I personally would rather be a PG17 Sr.TL making over $20/hr and getting paid Time&Half after 40 if they need my services, rather than being salaried. Plus, after a certain amount of income, more money doesn't make you any happier.. then it's all about having time for yourself/family.. 40hrs/week is more than enough time of work..
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Yea, you are right Sr TLs might make more per hour than an ETL..... but you are forgetting that it will take a few *years* for that Sr TL to rack up enough pay raises for it to reach that point. (and that assumes you are not getting IE's) All during that time, ETLs are kicking ass on pay.

Plus, please honestly answer, how many TMs make it from TM to Sr TL? Probably 1 in 1000 at best.

No one without a degree will get hired in as a SrTL. In order to make it to SrTL you will have to go from TM, to TL, to SRTL..... just doing that alone will take several years, and that is assuming you have what it takes to get to SrTL. (most people don't have what it takes.... part of it being a constant ability to kiss ass)

So all in all the ETLs still come out way ahead. Basically, here are you two possible steps to make around 50K at Target.

SrTL Route:

1. Get hired one day as a TM.
2. Spend the next 1-2 years proving that you are an absolutely outstanding TM.
3. Make sure that during those 1-2 years you are constantly kissing ass and manage not to get on any ETLs bad side.
4. Find a way to promote to TL. Could take an additional 1-2 years on top of the 1-2 years you already spent proving yourself as a TM.
5. Once promoted to TL, spend the next 1-4 years proving that you are an absolutely outstanding TL.
6. Make sure during those 1-4 years you are constantly kissing ass and manage not to get on any ETLs bad side.
7. Make it known you want to promote to SrTL. Considering most stores only have 1 SrTL, part of this will be simply waiting for them to leave.... which might be a few years.
8. Once that SrTL finally leaves, hope to god you are the TL that is promoted to SrTL. If another great TL at your store gets the job, go back to step 7 and wait a few years for them to leave.
9. Finally, after 4-10 years, you made it to SrTL.
10. Manage to get excellent and outstanding performance reviews the next few years so that you can make more money than the ETL that you started with 10 years ago who was making 50K all this time.

(yes, I know that there are incredible rare stories of people that went from TM to SrTL incredibly fast.... but for most people, the above process is what they have to go through. 99% of TMs won't ever make it to SrTL even if they try their best)

ETL Route:
1. Walk in the door.
2. Wave your degree around.
3. Start next week as an ETL making 50K.

Sooo.... I know it sounds nice to say SrTLs come out ahead over ETLs, so it is not worth it to be an ETL. And yea, that is true IF you manage to make it to SrTL. SrTL is a great job because you get most of the benefits without some of the major cons that come with being an ETL. The problem is, it is almost impossible for the vast majority of people who want to be a SrTL to actually make it that far.

So honestly the *real* choice most people have is either be a TM/TL or be an ETL. That is pretty much the only option. And these days, with all the TL reductions, even the odds of being a TL are pretty slim for most TMs.
 
GlobalTL123 and SeniorAP, I agree with you. SeniorAP, I would much rather make what a TL/SeniorTL makes and know I'm not giving up 50-60 hours a week. I've done that for my previous position and it wasn't the best.
GlobalTL123, I agree about degrees. Just having a degree doesn't make you an automatic shoe-in to any job. I live in an area of the country where LOTS of people have bachelor's degrees. Work experience and further education set others apart especially when applying for those "high-paying" government jobs StateofTarget believes are available en mass.

Some districts may be approaching promotions from within to ETL differently than your area, StateofTarget. Thanks for all your insight into this topic.
 
StateofTarget, it's important to note that you don't need to be a PG17 Sr.TL to make over $20/hr.. A PG15 TL can also do it.. When I was with target, I was making nearly $14/hr as a PG11 Sr.TPS. If I got promoted into a PG15 TL spot (before AE reduced TL's to PG 11/13/15), I would have been eligible for at least an additional $3.50/hr.. so that'd put me around the $17-$18 range.. Plus you'd be able to haggle at that point as well, so you could get pretty close to $20 without being a Sr.TL. And that was after 4 years of being there, so yes, it took sometime to get there (as you stated).
 
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