I'm Lost! The Call In/Sick/Late/NCNS/Attendance Thread

I'm not sure what point HLM is making, but if you are going to call off for Black Friday, they probably won't fire you on the spot, but expect to be performanced out pretty quickly.

I'm not saying that this isn't the right thing for you, you need to do what is best for you, regardless of what the rest of us think. But I really suggest if you are dependent on a paycheck, you start looking around.

Also, remember unless you can get ahold of someone two hours in advance at the store (call in when they are still doing set up in the morning) it will be an NCNS.
 
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I'm not sure what point HLM is making, but if you are going to call off for Black Friday, they probably won't fire you on the spot, but expect to be performanced out pretty quickly.

I'm not saying that this isn't the right thing for you, you need to do what is best for you, regardless of what the rest of us think. But I really suggest if you are dependent on a paycheck, you start looking around.

Also, remember unless you can get ahold of someone two hours in advance at the store (call in when they are still doing set up in the morning) it will be an NCNS.

Yeah, they might performance me out and I really don't care. Even though I've been with the company 5 years it has turned into a temporary job for me anyway. I've been contemplating walking away for a while now because my distaste for the direction this company has been going is quickly reaching a boiling point.
 
Yeah, they might performance me out and I really don't care. Even though I've been with the company 5 years it has turned into a temporary job for me anyway. I've been contemplating walking away for a while now because my distaste for the direction this company has been going is quickly reaching a boiling point.

Fair enough.
 
you are correct, rg.
pull, here is why i made that statement.
at my store, my stl has stated that anyone calls out on thursday night or black friday will be getting a coaching.

here is a job resource thread:
http://www.thebreakroom.org/showthread.php/2547

Haha, haven't heard that at my store but it doesn't surprise me. Preemptive threats, the Target method... They can coach me if they want, in 5 years with the company I've only had a couple coachings anyway and not a single one in the last year. On top of that, how can they prove I wasn't sick? They can coach all they want but after having been a team lead, I know that calling in sick is one of the most difficult challenges for performancing someone out.
 
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Not sure if it's just my district, but no-shows for seasoned TM's is an automatic Corrective. It's an automatic term for seasonal TM's.
I'm almost positive this includes call-outs. California, at least, is an at-will employment state. A company can get rid of you if you call in sick on a day that's blacked out (reliability issue), but the drawback is whether they have to pay for your unemployment or not. Ex. If you're term'd for hitting your 5th in CA (state law is 6 hrs) you will most likely get unemployment pay because you were not term'd under a state/federal law, therefore you could have continued working had it not been for the company's standards.
 
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Ex. If you're term'd for hitting your 5th in CA (state law is 6 hrs) you will most likely get unemployment pay because you were not term'd under a state/federal law, therefore you could have continued working had it not been for the company's standards.

Actually... "No employer shall employ any person for a work period of more than five (5) hours without a meal period of not less than 30 minutes, except that when a work period of not more than six (6) hours will complete the day’s work the meal period may be waived by mutual consent of the employer and the employee."

CA law is indeed five hours--but only to EARN a meal period. There's no actual requirement that the meal period take place before you reach 5 hours (or 6). Under the statute, it can come at any time, so long as you get it. (And you can mutually agree to waive the meal period if you're working no more than six hours that day. Try convincing Target of that! ;)) "Rest periods," however, unlike meal periods, "insofar as practicable shall be in the middle of each work period."

And even then:
"If an employer fails to provide an employee a meal period in accordance with the applicable provisions of this order, the employer shall pay the employee one (1) hour of pay at the employee’s regular rate of compensation for each workday that the meal period is not provided."

So even if they don't give you your meal break, they can just pay you off!

Labor law is so much more complicated than you'd think.

(Not that any of that was really relevant to the original discussion... I just thought it was interesting.)
 
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Actually... "No employer shall employ any person for a work period of more than five (5) hours without a meal period of not less than 30 minutes, except that when a work period of not more than six (6) hours will complete the day’s work the meal period may be waived by mutual consent of the employer and the employee."

CA law is indeed five hours--but only to EARN a meal period. There's no actual requirement that the meal period take place before you reach 5 hours (or 6). Under the statute, it can come at any time, so long as you get it. (And you can mutually agree to waive the meal period if you're working no more than six hours that day. Try convincing Target of that! ;)) "Rest periods," however, unlike meal periods, "insofar as practicable shall be in the middle of each work period."

And even then:
"If an employer fails to provide an employee a meal period in accordance with the applicable provisions of this order, the employer shall pay the employee one (1) hour of pay at the employee’s regular rate of compensation for each workday that the meal period is not provided."

So even if they don't give you your meal break, they can just pay you off!

Labor law is so much more complicated than you'd think.

(Not that any of that was really relevant to the original discussion... I just thought it was interesting.)

I actually had this in mind:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505125_162-57414505/employers-dont-have-to-require-lunch-breaks/

But I'm not sure if that's in effect yet. Under a ruling like that, you would be entitled to unemployment pay after termination for hitting your fifth hour because under Target's TM policies it is not left up to either party (TM or management) to decide whether or not a break can be taken.
Like you said, much more complicated than you'd think!
 
Yeah, they might performance me out and I really don't care.

I fail in seeing the good behind a "terminated" on your job history..
If you wanna leave target, do what a few people do every year, Put your two weeks in and make your last day Thanksgiving.
That way you can "stick it to the man" and still get your holiday.

You don't have anything to prove by calling out and getting fired shortly after and having that on your job record.

But if you wanna make stupid decisions, so be it... but don't try and rally up people are actually in need of a job and are willing to sacrafice the small family time Red has given us.
 
I fail in seeing the good behind a "terminated" on your job history..
If you wanna leave target, do what a few people do every year, Put your two weeks in and make your last day Thanksgiving.
That way you can "stick it to the man" and still get your holiday.

You don't have anything to prove by calling out and getting fired shortly after and having that on your job record.

But if you wanna make stupid decisions, so be it... but don't try and rally up people are actually in need of a job and are willing to sacrafice the small family time Red has given us.

You were one of those kids in school that was terrified of your "permanent record" weren't you?

First of all, I said I don't care if they try to performance me. I would care mildly if they terminated me BUT calling in sick for a couple shifts isn't enough to get you termed because that's basically an auto-win unemployment case.

Here's another thing, Target will not give out your reason for termination, or even the fact that you were terminated, to future employers. Hell, most employers won't do it because it opens them up to the liability of being the cause of you not getting the new job.

The position I am in is such that I'm not sacrificing, a little time with family, I'm sacrificing all of my time with family because I'm scheduled Wednesday night into Thursday morning for prep and then 2 hours before open on Thursday. It leaves me with about 16 hours between my shifts and an 8 hour round trip drive. Which would be plenty of time if I was somehow superhuman enough to not need sleep.

So, for me, it is not a stupid decision as you seem to think. Its money and (worst case scenario)a retail job, I can, and will, make more and find a replacement. I can't make more time with my family or replace them.

And finally, I never rallied everyone to follow me. I even said as much earlier in this thread that I would love to see a unified front to send a message to corporate leadership but that I have no expectations of that happening. If others are gonna call in great, if not, that's everyone's decision to make. I will say this though, Target does not, and will not care if you sacrifice time with your family. Statistically speaking, with the number of team members in the company this will be some team member's last Thanksgiving with at least one of their loved ones. I'm not going to be that team member because Target can have black friday all they want but Thanksgiving is my day and my time to spend with my family.

Stupid? If you really consider spending time with my family to be a stupid decision you have some sad priorities in life.
 
I fail in seeing the good behind a "terminated" on your job history..
If you wanna leave target, do what a few people do every year, Put your two weeks in and make your last day Thanksgiving.
That way you can "stick it to the man" and still get your holiday.

You don't have anything to prove by calling out and getting fired shortly after and having that on your job record.

But if you wanna make stupid decisions, so be it... but don't try and rally up people are actually in need of a job and are willing to sacrafice the small family time Red has given us.

Finally some sense in this post
 
Finally some sense in this post

What about the fact that the entire post is based on a false premise being that any of us were able to put in our 2 weeks notice when they only posted the schedule on Friday thus eliminating that possibility. You think that was a mistake of theirs or intentionally done to deter people from putting in their 2 week notice?
 
And finally, I never rallied everyone to follow me. I even said as much earlier in this thread that I would love to see a unified front to send a message to corporate leadership but that I have no expectations of that happening.
For this sentence I do apoloize. This was my mistake, I thought you were OP. So for saying YOU were rallying people, I do call out my mistake and I am really sorry for.

Everything else, I said, still stands.
 
Ask your family if they'd rather have you over for Thanksgiving dinner or have you move into their basement because you don't have a job.

Haha, yeah because that's essentially my entire situation. I either work Thanksgiving or I'm out of a job and living back in my parent's basement. Don't even pretend to know a damn thing about me.
 
What about the fact that the entire post is based on a false premise being that any of us were able to put in our 2 weeks notice when they only posted the schedule on Friday thus eliminating that possibility. You think that was a mistake of theirs or intentionally done to deter people from putting in their 2 week notice?

Wait, unless I'm misreading this.. Any target employee is able to put in their two weeks AT any time (As far as I know) and I know that you're able to QUIT on spot, but kiss unemployment goodbye in most cases. you don't NEED to know the schedule or have the schdule posted in order to leave target...Also, I am sure you're able to say on the form when your last day is.

when I put in my two weeks at a previous target like 3 years ago, i was able to choose my last day
 
Haha, yeah because that's essentially my entire situation. I either work Thanksgiving or I'm out of a job and living back in my parent's basement. Don't even pretend to know a damn thing about me.

Yeah, we don't know anything about you, which we will admit, but I personally am afraid that you think there are more jobs out there than you think. We may not know you, but what YOU don't know for certain, is if you lose your job, you may or may not be out of a job, with or without unemployment) for a long period of time.
 
I never said you'd be out of a job and/or living in your family's basement, but it is a possibility and one that you should consider. When you're making a possible life-altering decision, you should consider all the possible consequences.

Note that you said "back" in the basement which tells me you've been there before, right?
 
In all seriousness, if my kid skipped work to come to my house for dinner, I'd kick his butt. Family IS important to me, but so is loyalty to a commitment. If you don't think Target deserves your loyalty, then you need to find another place to work.
 
I, personally, would have NO problem calling off of work, no matter what day it was, as long as I had a reason to do so. Sure, they don't need a reason, but I, as an intelligent man, am required to have one for myself. No threats would keep me from doing so. But camaraderie would be the ONLY reason I would consider NOT to calling off. I feel bad when I do call off, for team members that depend on me. Now, i'm not trying to push my ideals on anyone, but offer advice, not only to you, but whoever else that views this. I had to work for this job. Even though it is part-time, it is the only one I have found. But I still will state, IF I had a reason for calling off, I would have no problems doing so. Not for spite, or to stick it the man.
 
Wait, unless I'm misreading this.. Any target employee is able to put in their two weeks AT any time (As far as I know) and I know that you're able to QUIT on spot, but kiss unemployment goodbye in most cases. you don't NEED to know the schedule or have the schdule posted in order to leave target...Also, I am sure you're able to say on the form when your last day is.

when I put in my two weeks at a previous target like 3 years ago, i was able to choose my last day
Absent extenuating circumstances, if you quit at a job, you never get unemployment. The exceptions are situations like if you quit because there's a hostile work environment the employer isn't addressing or some other type of condition that a reasonable person shouldn't have to deal with.

Yes, you can also absolutely quit on the spot which is basically the employee-side of at-will employment. You can quit at any time, they can fire you at any time. Now, you are right about not needing a schedule posted in order to quit but the schedule was posted 13 days before the day that I am scheduled to work which means while I still could quit and not put in a full 2 week notice they could/would likely classify me as non-rehireable.
Yeah, we don't know anything about you, which we will admit, but I personally am afraid that you think there are more jobs out there than you think. We may not know you, but what YOU don't know for certain, is if you lose your job, you may or may not be out of a job, with or without unemployment) for a long period of time.
First off, the chances of me losing my job for calling in on Thanksgiving are pretty low. Like I said, I have no coachings in the last month and absolutely no attendance issues. Secondly, as I am finishing up grad school right now, and thus on the cusp of having to pay back ridiculous student loans, if I am still working at Target 9 months from now I won't be making enough to make my student loan payments and thus having bigger concerns in my life. I literally cannot afford to continue working for Target in another 9 months.

We'll find out for sure in a couple weeks though but I'm not terribly worried though because unlike a lot of the country, my state's unemployment rate is right around 5%. Jobs, particularly retail, are not hard to come by around here. While I would likely have a slight cut in pay, I'm not concerned about not finding a job to replace this one until I graduate. Like I said though, if I'm making anywhere near what I'm making now in 9 months then I've got a hell of a lot more to worry about than whether I'm employed with Target.
I never said you'd be out of a job and/or living in your family's basement, but it is a possibility and one that you should consider. When you're making a possible life-altering decision, you should consider all the possible consequences.

Note that you said "back" in the basement which tells me you've been there before, right?
Yeah, when I was a teenager in high school, smartass. Unless you packed up and moved out after you left the womb, I'd imagine you spent at least some amount of time living with your parents in the past yourself.
In all seriousness, if my kid skipped work to come to my house for dinner, I'd kick his butt. Family IS important to me, but so is loyalty to a commitment. If you don't think Target deserves your loyalty, then you need to find another place to work.
Yep, I do believe in loyalty to a commitment as well and when I committed to working for Target 5 years ago, they weren't pulling this opening on Thanksgiving crap. If I had been hired recently, particularly in light of their midnight opening last year, I would obviously have less of a foundation for my indignation but 5 years ago when I started Target was being reasonable and opening at 6 AM.

Additionally, don't you think commitments should be more than one sided? Shouldn't Target have a commitment to me as well? Perhaps a work-life balance commitment?
I, personally, would have NO problem calling off of work, no matter what day it was, as long as I had a reason to do so. Sure, they don't need a reason, but I, as an intelligent man, am required to have one for myself. No threats would keep me from doing so. But camaraderie would be the ONLY reason I would consider NOT to calling off. I feel bad when I do call off, for team members that depend on me. Now, i'm not trying to push my ideals on anyone, but offer advice, not only to you, but whoever else that views this. I had to work for this job. Even though it is part-time, it is the only one I have found. But I still will state, IF I had a reason for calling off, I would have no problems doing so. Not for spite, or to stick it the man.
That's really the issue here, isn't it? I mean, I have made it very clear that I'm calling in for myself and myself only because I want to prioritize my time with my family. I'm not rallying the troops and I'm not trying to stick it to the man. I've learned long ago that one person sticking it to the man has about as much impact as a fart in the wind. I'm calling in because I've already had one family member pass away literally the day after we had Thanksgiving together. We knew it was coming then but I will not let the possibility of that happening with another family member and me not being there with them. Thankfully the year that happened though was a reasonable opening time and thus I wasn't put into the same position as this year so I was able to spend that time with her.
 
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Economic and societal situations exist that cause a corporation to make changes in its business plan. Some that once were closed on Sundays are now open 364 days a year. It's up to the employee to choose an employer that fits with his social and economic beliefs. It's not the responsibility of the corporation to make policy that meets your expectations. Loyalty is a two way street. Target has policies to ensure that you are treated fairly which go beyond your Constitutional rights. There is no law that any employer has to give you paid vacation, holidays or even UNpaid holidays or vacation.

If you're so afraid of someone dying, then you'd best make plans to spend every day with them. Death doesn't occur only on US holidays.
 
Economic and societal situations exist that cause a corporation to make changes in its business plan. Some that once were closed on Sundays are now open 364 days a year. It's up to the employee to choose an employer that fits with his social and economic beliefs. It's not the responsibility of the corporation to make policy that meets your expectations. Loyalty is a two way street. Target has policies to ensure that you are treated fairly which go beyond your Constitutional rights. There is no law that any employer has to give you paid vacation, holidays or even UNpaid holidays or vacation.

If you're so afraid of someone dying, then you'd best make plans to spend every day with them. Death doesn't occur only on US holidays.

You're right loyalty is a two way street.
If Spot was loyalty they need to treat us as something other then machine parts that can be used up and thrown away.
There is a great deal of talk about quality of life and respect for diversity but I see very little of that applied if it for one minute gets in the way of turning a buck.

You are right business changes and what was the standard twenty years ago isn't any more.
However the idea that an employer has to pick the business model that squeezes every last drop out of their workers is hogwash.
Uncle Wallie and Spot have thousands of employees on temp. support, food stamps, and child medicare.
That business model we are all paying for and it is destroying us.

The choices we have for jobs don't always fit our social and economic beliefs.
Sometimes you hold your nose and takes what you can get.
A kid who wants to go to graduate school and a major medical issue can do that to you.

Do you think Spot treats you fairly cause it wants to?
The government and unions kinda forced them into it.

But you are right about losing family or friends.
Lost a good friend a while back and there are a lot of things I would have given to be able to have seen him for a while before he was gone.
 
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Yes, Target has policies that are not government mandated. As I mentioned there is no law that holidays and vacations are mandatory, much less paid vacation and holidays. Do you believe that your TM discount is a state law? Work for a Mom-Pop business for a while. No sick leave, no vacation, no insurance, nothing. Yes, I know that our insurance is more expensive than it has been in the past years, but that's because insurance costs have risen so much. Target is still paying more for my insurance than I am. Pre-Spot, I paid nearly $2000 a month to insure my family of four with a higher deductible and lower benefits. Target matches my savings up to 5%. Not a law or a union causes that. Do you honestly think that Target is not diverse in its population? You should see my store and I'm proud of it.

I get it. You wish you had a higher paying job with better benefits. You wish you could take off any day, any time you wish. Few don't wish for that. So, do something about it rather than complain that "Target is an ole meanie."
 
Yes, Target has policies that are not government mandated. As I mentioned there is no law that holidays and vacations are mandatory, much less paid vacation and holidays. Do you believe that your TM discount is a state law? Work for a Mom-Pop business for a while. No sick leave, no vacation, no insurance, nothing. Yes, I know that our insurance is more expensive than it has been in the past years, but that's because insurance costs have risen so much. Target is still paying more for my insurance than I am. Pre-Spot, I paid nearly $2000 a month to insure my family of four with a higher deductible and lower benefits. Target matches my savings up to 5%. Not a law or a union causes that. Do you honestly think that Target is not diverse in its population? You should see my store and I'm proud of it.

I get it. You wish you had a higher paying job with better benefits. You wish you could take off any day, any time you wish. Few don't wish for that. So, do something about it rather than complain that "Target is an ole meanie."

Nice try, Gregg Steinhafel

On a serious note, aside from the discount, I don't get any of those things anymore now that I'm part time. If I was at Costco I'd have all those benefits, well and I wouldn't be scheduled on Thanksgiving day, either...

And finally, holidays are the times you make memories with your family. Spending as much time as possible with them is important but I prioritize spending time with them on holidays particularly because I only get to see them every few months right now.

Offering the bare minimum in benefits is not loyalty, it's the bare minimum they need to do to keep their employees from unionizing, of which Target is absolutely terrified. Loyalty is not effectively laying off the entire Valley Stream, NY after greater than half of them voted not to have a union anyway...
 
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