Archived What constitutes a coaching?

[Billybobjoe]

Today that ETL that I've written about here, wrote me up for a ticky tack violation. I've never received a coaching for this before, and feel like I'm being targeted by him because I wouldn't stay on thanksgiving. How can I fight this? What should I do? I'm going to ask for a copy of the CA tomorrow.

 

[PM2NO]

Coaching is a sit down conversation about bad performance. It’s still tracked but not as severe. CA is where you sign a piece of paper and have either 6 months to a year to improve or risk termination.

 

[Billybobjoe]

Coaching is a sit down conversation about performance. It’s still tracked but not as severe. CA is where you sign a piece of paper and have either 6 months to a year to improve or risk termination.

Ok, I was never "sat down" by this ETL and talked to regarding this.

 

[countingsheep]

Backpedal a bit here did you sign anything? Did they talk to you on the floor or elsewhere previously or was it a passing comment?

 

[Him]

@Billybobjoe since you said you were not "sat down", sounds to me you just received a verbal coaching. Those you are not "allowed" to have a "copy" of as those are how management tracks your work progress, performances etc. If you have received as @bullseye1962 said was a CA (corrective action), then those are kept on file with higher ups such as HR, STL etc.

 

[Billybobjoe]

Backpedal a bit here did you sign anything? Did they talk to you on the floor or elsewhere previously or was it a passing comment?

Yes I signed the paper. The ETL never talked to me about this infraction in particular because it's a newer policy that they haven't been doing for more than two months. He claimed the, "coaching" occurred on such and such date, but it was just a text, that told me to talk to someone else about this infraction. Not an official conversation at all. I should point out this is a big write up because it's a final for me. Pretty sure I'm being performanced out.

 

[TTGOz]

What Bullseye said.

I wouldn't stay on thanksgiving

just gonna pick this apart, a lot of TMs asked to go home early Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve but it's better to just stay your entire shift. Those things they call ETLs and Team leads don't get to go home early and have to stay. If you do truly feel like you're being picked on for this, don't take it personally, I'd probably be a bit salty too lol

 

[HRZone]

Today that ETL that I've written about here, wrote me up for a ticky tack violation. I've never received a coaching for this before, and feel like I'm being targeted by him because I wouldn't stay on thanksgiving. How can I fight this? What should I do? I'm going to ask for a copy of the CA tomorrow.

If he didn't ask you to sign it it isn't a CA.

It's probably a coaching which is a leader simply observing unacceptable behavior and documenting it. It's confidential so they are under no obligation to let you see it.

You could talk to that ETLs superior or HR to avoid conflicts in the future

 

[Billybobjoe]

@Billybobjoe since you said you were not "sat down", sounds to me you just received a verbal coaching. Those you are not "allowed" to have a "copy" of as those are how management tracks your work progress, performances etc. If you have received as @bullseye1962 said was a CA (corrective action), then those are kept on file with higher ups such as HR, STL etc.

No, today was a write-up. A CA. My understanding though, is that you have to coach someone multiple times on something before you write them up? I don't think I was coached on this particular infraction. My ETL claimed he coached me on two separate occasions(that's why I want the document tomorrow to look it over). But, it never felt like any disciplinary talk. I think he's BSing times, so that he can write me up and put me on a final.

 

[Billybobjoe]

What Bullseye said.


just gonna pick this apart, a lot of TMs asked to go home early Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve but it's better to just stay your entire shift. Those things they call ETLs and Team leads don't get to go home early and have to stay. If you do truly feel like you're being picked on for this, don't take it personally, I'd probably be a bit salty too lol

I didn't go home early. I worked my shift, a full 8 hours. I refused to work OT.

 

[TTGOz]

I didn't go home early. I worked my shift, a full 8 hours. I refused to work OT.

Oh sorry then I don't know then, you're in the right then for that. Is there any other reason you feel like you're getting picked on for that??

 

[Him]

No, today was a write-up. A CA. My understanding though, is that you have to coach someone multiple times on something before you write them up? I don't think I was coached on this particular infraction. My ETL claimed he coached me on two separate occasions(that's why I want the document tomorrow to look it over). But, it never felt like any disciplinary talk. I think he's BSing times, so that he can write me up and put me on a final.

This is a very thin line as since you "don't think" you were "coached" on whatever "infraction" that you are talking about. As I have stated earlier, management can only disclose certain information as it pertains to you as a tm. Certain policies are in place to not only protect "Target", but to protect confidentiality as well. I know it sounds like I am being a "prick", but I held a management position for Spot before and their were ALOT of politics involved.

 

[IWishIKnew]

OK, to recap the events:

1. You worked T'giving, 8 hours. Were asked to work OT but understandably and legitimately refused to stay late.
2. You received text "coaching" for an infraction, but no writeup?
3. You then received coaching-that-wasn't-framed-as-coaching on similar infractions? What are the "infractions"?
4. Now you're being put on a final/CA for them, despite not having a CA or other writeup previously?

 

[anathema]

Without knowing what the CCA is for, we can really only guess.

Your TL/ETL needs a track record for any CCA. Target is afraid of legal issues so they make sure leaders cover their tracks with multiple PDDs that outline what was discussed with you and what the clear-cut expectation for you is. If you receive multiple PDDs, it can get referred for CCA. If you feel like your ETL has not given you a fair hand to play then you should make noise to your ETL-HR and STL and explain that you don't understand what's happening or what the expectation is. If you let your ETL get away with it, you probably won't have a job soon.

 

[Him]

Without knowing what the CCA is for, we can really only guess.

Your TL/ETL needs a track record for any CCA. Target is afraid of legal issues so they make sure leaders cover their tracks with multiple PDDs that outline what was discussed with you and what the clear-cut expectation for you is. If you receive multiple PDDs, it can get referred for CCA. If you feel like your ETL has not given you a fair hand to play then you should make noise to your ETL-HR and STL and explain that you don't understand what's happening or what the expectation is. If you let your ETL get away with it, you probably won't have a job soon.

@anathema said it as clear cut and to the point as possible.

 

[countingsheep]

Yes I signed the paper. The ETL never talked to me about this infraction in particular because it's a newer policy that they haven't been doing for more than two months. He claimed the, "coaching" occurred on such and such date, but it was just a text, that told me to talk to someone else about this infraction. Not an official conversation at all. I should point out this is a big write up because it's a final for me. Pretty sure I'm being performanced out.

First off you should never ever sign anything unless you both understand and agree to what you are signing. Second a text is not a coaching thats off the clock crap that should be saved and brought to your hr or stl as a serious violation. Not to mention thats tacky as hell for a leader to do. Third how many times has this incident been mentioned exactly? Quite frankly this smells all kinds of fishy sit down with your hr and stl and make it plai ly clear you do not understand what this is about and you want clarification.

 

[Billybobjoe]

OK, to recap the events:

1. You worked T'giving, 8 hours. Were asked to work OT but understandably and legitimately refused to stay late.
2. You received text "coaching" for an infraction, but no writeup?
3. You then received coaching-that-wasn't-framed-as-coaching on similar infractions? What are the "infractions"?
4. Now you're being put on a final/CA for them, despite not having a CA or other writeup previously?

1. Yes, correct. And after I left on time my ETL was pissed, and was telling TMs that he was going to write me up for not staying(which he can't do). I talked to HR about this and told them that he was breaching confidentiality by telling other TMs my business and that I didn't violate any policies. After I spoke to them the ETL backed off a little. I think he's attempting to get rid of me though. He clearly has it out for me. He's probably still pissed I went to HR and talked to them.

2. He mentioned two incidents where he, "coached" me. I couldn't remember one of the incidents, but the other one was a text message about a TM member(I'm a PA) breaking pallets on u boats. He told me to talk to her. That was it. He's calling that a coaching.

3. The infraction that I was being written up for is different. I'll PM you because I want to remain somewhat anonymous.

4. I was on a CA for attendance which I acknowledge is 100 percent on me. I've since fixed it. My belief is that he was eager to write me up because he knew I was already on CA so he can put me on a final.

 

[Billybobjoe]

First off you should never ever sign anything unless you both understand and agree to what you are signing. Second a text is not a coaching thats off the clock crap that should be saved and brought to your hr or stl as a serious violation. Not to mention thats tacky as hell for a leader to do. Third how many times has this incident been mentioned exactly? Quite frankly this smells all kinds of fishy sit down with your hr and stl and make it plai ly clear you do not understand what this is about and you want clarification.

1. I understand, but I get nervous, and I don't want to get in further trouble.
2. Although the ETL LOVES to group text TM's(and off the clock!), this was on the clock. The text was literally, "This TM is doing this, she shouldn't be doing it, go talk to her".
3. This policy is brand new and our market process has changed considerably during the past few months. He mentions it to the team, but I've never been singled out for it, ever.
4. Unfortunately, my ETL-HR is on vacation, and I'm about to start vacation myself. So I'm not sure what to do exactly. Should I become a model TM? Or try to fight this?

 

[HRZone]

Yes I signed the paper. The ETL never talked to me about this infraction in particular because it's a newer policy that they haven't been doing for more than two months. He claimed the, "coaching" occurred on such and such date, but it was just a text, that told me to talk to someone else about this infraction. Not an official conversation at all. I should point out this is a big write up because it's a final for me. Pretty sure I'm being performanced out.

No offense this doesn't add up at all. Did it say final warning? What was the infraction?

 

[Billybobjoe]

No offense this doesn't add up at all. Did it say final warning? What was the infraction?

Yes, he told me final warning. It lasts for a full year. I'll PM you the infraction.

 

[HRZone]

First off you should never ever sign anything unless you both understand and agree to what you are signing. Second a text is not a coaching thats off the clock crap that should be saved and brought to your hr or stl as a serious violation. Not to mention thats tacky as hell for a leader to do. Third how many times has this incident been mentioned exactly? Quite frankly this smells all kinds of fishy sit down with your hr and stl and make it plai ly clear you do not understand what this is about and you want clarification.

It's pretty common for tms to refuse to sign correctives. Doesn't mean it doesn't go on your record but it's wise not to sign them because if you hope to sue target later a signature can be interpreted as admitting what you were accused of doing.

 

[IWishIKnew]

It sounds like the ETL does have it in for you, so I would say you need to be pretty meticulous in your response. Read the CA, and gather any documentation you can, including any and all texts and stuff like that. If you're about to go on vacation, that might be good (please someone correct me if I'm wrong!) because it will allow you to look over the documents and think about a response for HR and/or your STL when you get back. If the attendance issue is cleared up, bring whatever documentation you can (eg. I was late 3 times before the first week of December, but have been on time since then, here are my timecards, etc.). It's super easy in these type of situations to get rushed & defensive, and that's what the ETL is counting on, so your best bet is to remain calm, factual, unemotional and document, document, document.

Good luck!

 

[HRZone]

Well with more info I think you're right he's trying to get rid of you for sure. Some ETLs do this but here's how you beat it.

The obvious ones fix your attendance (which you acknowledge) writing up a tm with bad attendance is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Document every conversation with him that seems off. It sounds like he wrote you up for things that weren't a clear coaching for you.

Let HR know you are willing to fight this. Making comments and asking about the hotline and what your options are will get HR to relay he needs to back off

 

[Billybobjoe]

Well with more info I think you're right he's trying to get rid of you for sure. Some ETLs do this but here's how you beat it.

The obvious ones fix your attendance (which you acknowledge) writing up a tm with bad attendance is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Document every conversation with him that seems off. It sounds like he wrote you up for things that weren't a clear coaching for you.

Let HR know you are willing to fight this. Making comments and asking about the hotline and what your options are will get HR to relay he needs to back off

I've been documenting, and I have the text that he sent me that he apparently is calling a, "coaching". I also have numerous texts from him to the department off the clock.

What should I say to HR? That I don't consider those things a coaching?

 

[TheBeastPMT]

The Hotline is your friend in this case. Target doesnt prefer confrontation.
But if you go to your HR, a lot that I have come across arent trust worthy or helpful and would either side with your ETL, or say they will help and not do shit.

Document everything!