How does Target determine "push times"?

[Guy101]

I know this is somewhat related to my other thread, and this is more of a curiosity than anything else.

For background, I work in the supply chain and distribution industry as my "9-5" and work at Target a few nights a week just to cover expenses while my wife completes her doctorate. We use time standards for almost every position, and I have a strong understanding of how those are determined, as I have had to work with our industrial engineers on a number of projects. We use an engineered Labor Standard that takes every case product, measures walking distance, travel distance, product weight, and gives a time for each action; those actions are totaled up based on what items are being selected, and that is how the time is determined.

I was told that you get "1 minute per case", but that doesn't seem correct, or at least doesn't make sense from establishing a standard. All boxes are not created equal, all departments are not equal.

Does anyone have any knowledge as to how Target determines the "push time"?

 

[Ashfromoldsite]

They just pick a number out of a hat! Lol

 

[Captain Orca]

An unsubstantiated arbitrary metric pulled out of someone's ass. Push as best you can, ask an occasional question and under your educated and experienced breath tell (x) to screw themselves. It's just not that critical.

 

[MrT]

Thats not true the true times that target gives you on the truck paperwork is much better and substantiated through whatever data they have. Then the middle management and the store management try and use averages to make things simpler and just say each box is one minute and repacks are 5 minutes or whatever. So yeah target does use that engineered data and the information is there. Tbh the numbers may actually be overvalued if everything is done correctly. When I did inbound I would show them the hard data given and the payroll being understaffed, but it wouldn't matter it was always a just make it work attitude.

 

[Dead and Khaki]

Someone at corporate is paid to continuously swallow numbered lotto balls and reach up their butt on request.

 

[Guy101]

Thats not true the true times that target gives you on the truck paperwork is much better and substantiated through whatever data they have. Then the middle management and the store management try and use averages to make things simpler and just say each box is one minute and repacks are 5 minutes or whatever. So yeah target does use that engineered data and the information is there. Tbh the numbers may actually be overvalued if everything is done correctly. When I did inbound I would show them the hard data given and the payroll being understaffed, but it wouldn't matter it was always a just make it work attitude.

This is what I thought, but I wasn't sure and hoped someone would have some information on it.

I think the issue is that there isn't a standard in place for training, at least as far as I can tell. You come in, complete some online modules, unload a truck with a brief explanation of that process, then they pair you with someone to push, and it's good luck. It's not difficult to pick up, but I imagine you would get better results with a more structured approach.

 

[allnew2]

This is what I thought, but I wasn't sure and hoped someone would have some information on it.

I think the issue is that there isn't a standard in place for training, at least as far as I can tell. You come in, complete some online modules, unload a truck with a brief explanation of that process, then they pair you with someone to push, and it's good luck. It's not difficult to pick up, but I imagine you would get better results with a more structured approach.

Your leader doesn’t go over the truck details with you?
Like showing how many hours for unload, how many for push , which departments gets hit , how to trap bulk, all that should be talked about during your huddle before unload .

 

[jenna]

Your leader doesn’t go over the truck details with you?
Like showing how many hours for unload, how many for push , which departments gets hit , how to trap bulk, all that should be talked about during your huddle before unload .

😂😅

haha, you're funny. assuming all stores have a huddle before unload, and leaders communicate necessary info to the team.

 

[Guy101]

Your leader doesn’t go over the truck details with you?
Like showing how many hours for unload, how many for push , which departments gets hit , how to trap bulk, all that should be talked about during your huddle before unload .

Huddle? We come in, find a place on the line, and start the unload. Even the placement on the line is sort of up to us. Just find a gap, and that is where you are sorting and stacking. I asked if they had assigned a section (Person A will have 1-21, Person B will have 2-30, Person C will have 23-57...), and they gave me a blank stare, so I went back to the opening. All of it is super simple, and the pace is incredibly slow compared to what I have done in the past, but there is no preshift huddle, no information except our daily roster (schedule, who is on unload, and the area we will push in).

Also, no one has any understanding of how to stack a flat (for the areas we use flats). Everything else is simple things to handle, but I will look at a flat and see how poorly it is stacked, and it drives me nuts. They end up with about 1/3 of the cases that will fit because it is just randomly placed. I go around and fix them if I can, but 10 minutes later, it is fudged up again.

 

[sunnysquarpantz]

I know this is somewhat related to my other thread, and this is more of a curiosity than anything else.

For background, I work in the supply chain and distribution industry as my "9-5" and work at Target a few nights a week just to cover expenses while my wife completes her doctorate. We use time standards for almost every position, and I have a strong understanding of how those are determined, as I have had to work with our industrial engineers on a number of projects. We use an engineered Labor Standard that takes every case product, measures walking distance, travel distance, product weight, and gives a time for each action; those actions are totaled up based on what items are being selected, and that is how the time is determined.

I was told that you get "1 minute per case", but that doesn't seem correct, or at least doesn't make sense from establishing a standard. All boxes are not created equal, all departments are not equal.

Does anyone have any knowledge as to how Target determines the "push time"?

The push times are on the actual trailer detailed report. It's in decimal point just like our shifts so you just have to do the math like believe our 7.75 hour shift is a 7 hour 45 min shift if that makes sense. Its 1 minute per case pack and 7-10 minutes per repack since home repack could have like as little as 5 things and a stationary can have like 12 items inside repack.

 

[allnew2]

😂😅

haha, you're funny. assuming all stores have a huddle before unload, and leaders communicate necessary info to the team.

I guess so. I made sure I trained my leaders well so I would have to manage less 😆. Shame on me for giving them the autonomy to actually be leaders 😊

 

[allnew2]

Huddle? We come in, find a place on the line, and start the unload. Even the placement on the line is sort of up to us. Just find a gap, and that is where you are sorting and stacking. I asked if they had assigned a section (Person A will have 1-21, Person B will have 2-30, Person C will have 23-57...), and they gave me a blank stare, so I went back to the opening. All of it is super simple, and the pace is incredibly slow compared to what I have done in the past, but there is no preshift huddle, no information except our daily roster (schedule, who is on unload, and the area we will push in).

Also, no one has any understanding of how to stack a flat (for the areas we use flats). Everything else is simple things to handle, but I will look at a flat and see how poorly it is stacked, and it drives me nuts. They end up with about 1/3 of the cases that will fit because it is just randomly placed. I go around and fix them if I can, but 10 minutes later, it is fudged up again.

That’s a shame.
i always made sure that huddles were done before each truck even if its just 5 minutes to pump them up and give out the plan .
I put a white board at the dock and every night the leader would write how big the truck was by what time should be done. They would also add the dpci for the bulk and the name of the tm who would trap it as well as the name of the runner( who takes the pallets out) once truck was done and the team would be on their way to break they would grab all p2 vehicles and stage them on the floor. They all knew where the wave would start , how many hour each department and who would stay behind to do their trash and backstock and the rest would move along.

 

[HInbound]

An unsubstantiated arbitrary metric pulled out of someone's ass. Push as best you can, ask an occasional question and under your educated and experienced breath tell (x) to screw themselves. It's just not that critical.

Bullshit.

The majority of our team can make their designated push times that Greenfield/MPM gives them. Those that can't, we work alongside them to see where they may be faltering and offer suggestions. Some people end up just being slow regardless, which is probably why you're so bitter, but as long as they're trying their best and finishing in a reasonable time, we can work around it.

If you can't make the push times that Target designates (assuming your leaders aren't coming up with their own numbers) then you need to ask questions as to what you can do better to make those goal times.

Business processes are absolutely critical to a well run store. We know you had a shitty store and left, but there's no need to give out shitty advice to people trying to understand how things work, and possibly elevate their store.

ASANTS.

 

[HInbound]

I know this is somewhat related to my other thread, and this is more of a curiosity than anything else.

For background, I work in the supply chain and distribution industry as my "9-5" and work at Target a few nights a week just to cover expenses while my wife completes her doctorate. We use time standards for almost every position, and I have a strong understanding of how those are determined, as I have had to work with our industrial engineers on a number of projects. We use an engineered Labor Standard that takes every case product, measures walking distance, travel distance, product weight, and gives a time for each action; those actions are totaled up based on what items are being selected, and that is how the time is determined.

I was told that you get "1 minute per case", but that doesn't seem correct, or at least doesn't make sense from establishing a standard. All boxes are not created equal, all departments are not equal.

Does anyone have any knowledge as to how Target determines the "push time"?

I think the 1 minute per case is somewhat reasonable for most areas. If you check an area like H&H in MPM, their goal times are overinflated from our experience because they give you more than a minute per case because of all the tape, styrofoam, packaging, etc. Our team generally destroys that push time suggestion.

I know it's not the answer you're looking for, but short of someone involved in that process at corporate being on the forum and seeing the thread, you probably won't get a concrete answer.

 

[can't touch this]

lizard people be like "let's ask ChatGPT" and ChatGPT be like "Push times are a fantastic metric frequently used by data-driven organizations seeking optimized, investor-centric outcomes, also space-giraffes have 6 pairs of compound eyes on each of their two dozen opposable thumbs" and the lizard people be like

 

[Captain Orca]

Bullshit.

The majority of our team can make their designated push times that Greenfield/MPM gives them. Those that can't, we work alongside them to see where they may be faltering and offer suggestions. Some people end up just being slow regardless, which is probably why you're so bitter, but as long as they're trying their best and finishing in a reasonable time, we can work around it.

If you can't make the push times that Target designates (assuming your leaders aren't coming up with their own numbers) then you need to ask questions as to what you can do better to make those goal times.

Business processes are absolutely critical to a well run store. We know you had a shitty store and left, but there's no need to give out shitty advice to people trying to understand how things work, and possibly elevate their store.

ASANTS.

I had a shitty store? Bullshit, how the fuck do you know? You don't

 

[Captain Orca]

I could out push 99% of the team, we had some really lazy ones. Some were good. Most marginal.

 

[HInbound]

I had a shitty store? Bullshit, how the fuck do you know? You don't

You complain about your old store all the time. It's ok, you'll remember eventually.

 

[Captain Orca]

One TL in particular was awful the rest were fine decent people.

 

[Guy101]

I think the 1 minute per case is somewhat reasonable for most areas. If you check an area like H&H in MPM, their goal times are overinflated from our experience because they give you more than a minute per case because of all the tape, styrofoam, packaging, etc. Our team generally destroys that push time suggestion.

I know it's not the answer you're looking for, but short of someone involved in that process at corporate being on the forum and seeing the thread, you probably won't get a concrete answer.

The more I glean from this discussion and my limited experience, I believe an arbitrary time, such as "1 minute per case," wouldn't work. Like anything, it is far more complicated than that. I am unsure if Target employs Industrial Engineers or if they hire an outside firm, but there is likely a standard based on ELS. Granted, I've done this maybe 8 nights, but I'm about 90% of the indicated push time. Typically, metrics like these are based on what a trained, average person, working at a comfortable pace, can meet. Granted, I would say that I am far from properly trained, but the job is simple enough to pick up, and the efficiency is pretty easy to discover through conversations and practice.

The issue seems to be a lack of consistency between stores, not in the number or designated "push times," but in the operation itself. How the U-boats are set up, the training, the information provided, TLs and ETLs, and how they lead...

I assume that there is a lot of turnover, even in my short time, I have seen three new people join and three people no longer working. That is a 100% turnover rate, again, which is likely very different from one store to the next, but I would not be surprised if that number, as an average of all stores, is not close to the reality company-wide. Many things contribute to this, from the interview process (hiring the wrong people), lack of training, expectations, lack of information, poor leadership, poor training for the leadership, pay...the list is infinite.

Sorry, that was a small tangent and a "not my problem" type of thing. I was just curious if it has ever been accurately explained to anyone working in those areas or if it is just speculation and assumed knowledge/rumor.

 

[Guy101]

One TL in particular was awful the rest were fine decent people.

Being a TL seems like a shitty job...long hours, very high expectations and almost zero leadership training. What it looks like is a glorified team member, with way more bullshit to deal with. I like the fact that I can come in, keep my head down, talk to no one, and just throw cases. Having to do that and manage a shift is...poor organizational setup. Their role should be one of coaching and helping their team continually improve. This can be done through many different techniques, but if you are not able to work "with" the team members because you have to also do the work "of" the team members, your leadership will take a backseat. If you don't have the numbers and staff, this will result in many issues.