Archived Lady having a Meltdown in Target

[SoCalMama]

I don't blame him for doing it. Cuffs are more of a deterrent. But he is allowed to use them in certain situations. I do think he needs more training on the use of handcuffs. He struggled a lot trying to gain control. Taking the person to the ground is generally a no-no. But this situation isn't exactly covered in training, so they may see no problem. These things can go either way.

Also that LOD probably had no idea about what AP can actually do.

I agree he needs better training on technique.
We had an AP team that was seriously bad-ass. They moved to busier stores. These guys were young, smart, strong and fast.
Our new AP team .... no way they are doing an ap. No way. LOL I can't even imagine it.

 

[HardlinesGuy]

I'm willing to bet a paycheck that this TPS is termed or on a final. Poor guy...

 

[zer0nhand]

Funny how the guests tried to intervene when she was being apprehended, no one came close or tried calming her down before that. 'cept for that young fellow who I'm assuming just wanted to get on camera.

 

[Redzee]

Be interesting to hear how it all ends. I was a little worried that Mr. Tattoo was going to weigh in on her side.
A zebra and a mydevice...

 

[Pale]

What a dumb fucking bitch, Jesus Christ. That's why i don't even trust myself to be ap, I probably would have just fucking duct taped her mouth shut so I wouldn't have to hear her demonic screeching as much. And of course people are just standing around watching, piss off and continue shopping y'all. Also the printer look pretty good imo, near that these ones are actual hip printers unlike the old ones that seem too heavy.

 

[Smashier]

"I'll leave if you let go, I'll leave if you let go"

But yeah I found the lady "guest" that demanded to know if someone would help him more annoying and offensive than the crackhead.

 

[Pale]

But yeah I found the lady "guest" that demanded to know if someone would help him more annoying and offensive than the crackhead.

Right? First time around I thought she was asking for help finding something and I got annoyed, rewatched that part and got even more annoyed.

 

[PM2NO]

I showed this to my ETL-AP. She said likely that possibly the TPS had apprehension certification so he could intervene as a last resort.

 

[Hazza43]

for 95% of that video i was watching it full of jealousy with those printers, the fancy new GS desk and wich which

 

[Frontlanegirl]

Only to have the LOD be like "Just this one time"

Parenting 101

 

[SrTLall]

We got 6 new zebra printers this week. I hope we receive labels so we can use them at some point.

 

[Tessa120]

Why dont TPS have tasers?

If the APTL is not in the building they can't do shit.

Taser would prevent this lady from throwing merchandise around.

If someone has a heart condition involving the electrical rhythm of the heart, a taser can cause sudden heart stoppage. AP killing someone when trying to subdue them with a taser would be massively bad publicity.

 

[NKG]

This lady on the Target Facebook just posted about this video. She wrote never shopping at a store that hires outside companies that don't know how to handle mentally ill people and should left it for the police. Does that mean TPS should get paid more if they are not working for Target? hahahahaha

 

[redeye58]

This lady on the Target Facebook just posted about this video. She wrote never shopping at a store that hires outside companies that don't know how to handle mentally ill people and should left it for the police. Does that mean TPS should get paid more if they are not working for Target? hahahahaha

People like that are SO sanctimonious until THEY'RE the one getting hit in the head; then they lawyer up looking for a jackpot judgement.

 

[Flow Warrior]

Why dont TPS have tasers?

If the APTL is not in the building they can't do shit.

Taser would prevent this lady from throwing merchandise around.

Tasers are a weapon. In texas you can open carry swords and knifes starting next month.
As I understand it, all ap personal can take down someone violent.

 

[Flow Warrior]

And that TPS will be on final warning at the very least.....

Why? I have seen 3 take downs including one with Ap ETL. This is by the book. Your profile says you are ap so politely explain why the coaching would happen.
The only thing I see that was wrong was he had no partner during the take down and handcuffing. The lady was belligerent and violent.

Why wasn't LOD (because if you listen over her screaming you can hear the radio call for LOD) assisting? WE all know that LOD is stl effectively. So she as the right even if she is a key holding sr tl to assist.

Its a mall target too.

Oh and the zebra printers are really nice. I love mine. We only got 3 though

 

[Flow Warrior]

I would have gotten fired here, because I would have swooped in to help the TPS, without even thinking about it.

Yeah, unless you are etl or key carrying sr tl you can't.

 

[Kartman]

If you initiate something, then you need to be able to TCOB or at least have back up.

 

[Tessa120]

This lady on the Target Facebook just posted about this video. She wrote never shopping at a store that hires outside companies that don't know how to handle mentally ill people and should left it for the police. Does that mean TPS should get paid more if they are not working for Target? hahahahaha

Snort. No one knows how to handle the mentally ill. No one.

As far as calling the police, most police officers only know how to make the situation worse, as they can't seem to figure out someone is mentally ill or mentally disabled and the escalation tactics that work well on right thinking criminals only make someone mentally ill or mentally disabled act more extreme. Remember the shooting of the therapist in Florida and how the cop was aiming at the guy with severe autism self-soothing by rocking and playing with a toy truck? The ones that do have proper training can manage to deescalate a situation, but here's the fun part about being mentally ill. What will calm down one person will just rev another one up, because every mentally ill person has their own "flavor" of mental illness.

Aside from laughing my ass off over how the TPS had such trouble with a woman half his size, I think he did the best anyone could have. He didn't rough her up, she didn't end up slammed against the floor with a knee on her neck risking strangulation, he didn't risk causing a heart attack with a taser, she didn't get shot, no broken bones, nothing bad. She was subdued with minimal force. She was unhurt, which means the local hospital won't be sidetracked from evaluating her mental state because of needing to treat physical injuries.

With a bit of luck she'll have long-term care and she'll look back and say "Why the fuck did I do that???" and she'll take the steps needed to keep from getting that bad off again.

And if I every completely lose it, I'm hoping whoever is forced to subdue me is as nice and gentle as the TPS in the video.

 

[Kartman]

The third or fourth time she screamed let me go and I'll leave, he should have gave her that opportunity.

Failing that? Choke slam the fool.

 

[HRZone]

Why? I have seen 3 take downs including one with Ap ETL.

That's because APS/APTL/ETL AP can put their hands on people. The guy in the video is clearly a tps.

This is by the book.

Nope, my etl ap and TPS both told me the TPS acted outside of guidelines. Did he do the right thing? Absolutely! But according to the book, he did not.

WE all know that LOD is stl effectively. So she as the right even if

I'm pretty sure they are not allowed to assist with apprehensions unless they have been ap trained.

 

[TallAPGuy]

Why? I have seen 3 take downs including one with Ap ETL. This is by the book. Your profile says you are ap so politely explain why the coaching would happen.
The only thing I see that was wrong was he had no partner during the take down and handcuffing. The lady was belligerent and violent.

Why wasn't LOD (because if you listen over her screaming you can hear the radio call for LOD) assisting? WE all know that LOD is stl effectively. So she as the right even if she is a key holding sr tl to assist.

Its a mall target too.

1: As of when I left back in March, TPSs were basically forbidden from going hands on with anyone for any reason unless it was an apprehension initiated by an APS or higher.
2: Unless the LOD happened to be the ETL-AP, Target absolutely forbids anyone that is not in AP, even the ETL's and STL, from assisting with physical apprehensions beyond calling 911, with zero exceptions. That is a hard rule that will get ETLs shown the door for a first violation.

Snort. No one knows how to handle the mentally ill. No one.

As far as calling the police, most police officers only know how to make the situation worse, as they can't seem to figure out someone is mentally ill or mentally disabled and the escalation tactics that work well on right thinking criminals only make someone mentally ill or mentally disabled act more extreme. Remember the shooting of the therapist in Florida and how the cop was aiming at the guy with severe autism self-soothing by rocking and playing with a toy truck? The ones that do have proper training can manage to deescalate a situation, but here's the fun part about being mentally ill. What will calm down one person will just rev another one up, because every mentally ill person has their own "flavor" of mental illness.

Aside from laughing my ass off over how the TPS had such trouble with a woman half his size, I think he did the best anyone could have. He didn't rough her up, she didn't end up slammed against the floor with a knee on her neck risking strangulation, he didn't risk causing a heart attack with a taser, she didn't get shot, no broken bones, nothing bad. She was subdued with minimal force. She was unhurt, which means the local hospital won't be sidetracked from evaluating her mental state because of needing to treat physical injuries.

With a bit of luck she'll have long-term care and she'll look back and say "Why the fuck did I do that???" and she'll take the steps needed to keep from getting that bad off again.

And if I every completely lose it, I'm hoping whoever is forced to subdue me is as nice and gentle as the TPS in the video.

As far as your jab at the Police, see your first point. Cops receive very little training in dealing with people with mental illness (seriously, I'm almost done with the Police academy and I got a whopping 12 hours of instruction on it), and yet they're the people who are called every time someone is having a mental health issue, even by the family of those who are suffering from it. Also, the idiot in Flordia who shot the caregiver is being charged for it.
As for the TPS having trouble with a woman half his size: people with mental illness and those high on drugs can be far more powerful than they appear. Many times the illness/drug dampens their pain receptors while overloading their adrenal system, causing a crazed 90 pound lady to be stronger than a normal 300 pound body-builder because they simply push their bodies beyond it's breaking point.

 

[Kartman]

They all have necks.

 

[Badjedidude]

FYI about tasers: I think some people are confused about the meaning of "non-lethal," as tasers are classified this way (or "less-than-lethal, etc, in some states).

Non-lethal doesn't mean that it can't kill someone. It just means that it's a bit less likely to kill someone. It still can.

I'm not a proponent of TPS's carrying tasers. I don't really think it's necessary for what the position demands. If I had one, I'd probably never even wear it on my belt, to be honest. And my store is fairly high-shrink/high-theft. But maybe that's a matter of opinion.

We get our business done without 'em, so I can't see the necessity of them.

That's my two cents on that.

Aside from laughing my ass off over how the TPS had such trouble with a woman half his size, I think he did the best anyone could have. He didn't rough her up, she didn't end up slammed against the floor with a knee on her neck risking strangulation, he didn't risk causing a heart attack with a taser, she didn't get shot, no broken bones, nothing bad. She was subdued with minimal force. She was unhurt, which means the local hospital won't be sidetracked from evaluating her mental state because of needing to treat physical injuries.

I can easily say there have been a couple of times when tiny, crack-addicted women have surprised me with their strength. I think it's important that you note that she was uninjured, and that's one reason that I think it took the TPS a while to subdue her on his own -- we're trained to use the LEAST amount of force possible. Yeah, it'd be a lot easier to full-strength body-slam someone into compliance, but in doing so you run the risk of injuring them. Subduing a combative subject while remaining controlled and limiting the amount of force and injury that you're doing to the subject is a lot harder than it seems. Don't laugh until you've tried it, I guess, is what I'm saying.

The only "bad" part of this incident is that the subject went to the ground for a while, which in AP is a pretty big no-no. Also the physical part went on a bit longer than is acceptable. When we go hands-on, the physical part of controlling the subject needs to be like 30 seconds or less. A minute, tops. If the ETL-AP was there, I'm not sure why they didn't help out. They should have.

Why? I have seen 3 take downs including one with Ap ETL. This is by the book. Your profile says you are ap so politely explain why the coaching would happen.
The only thing I see that was wrong was he had no partner during the take down and handcuffing. The lady was belligerent and violent.

Doesn't matter that the lady was belligerent. Unless the TPS is app-certified (as a Sr. TPS or similar, like "APTM" or some other designation) then he can't go hands-on and apprehend on his own. Those are the rules. Does it suck that TPS's are limited in that way? Yeah.

But I'm hoping the TPS's higher-ups are understanding and are willing to give the guy a little leeway here. The guest obviously needed to be removed from the store and was endangering others.

 

[On6]

Why? I have seen 3 take downs including one with Ap ETL. This is by the book. Your profile says you are ap so politely explain why the coaching would happen.
The only thing I see that was wrong was he had no partner during the take down and handcuffing. The lady was belligerent and violent.

Why wasn't LOD (because if you listen over her screaming you can hear the radio call for LOD) assisting? WE all know that LOD is stl effectively. So she as the right even if she is a key holding sr tl to assist.

Its a mall target too.

Oh and the zebra printers are really nice. I love mine. We only got 3 though

This one definitely isn't "by the book". We are trained to not take people to the ground. If you go to the ground your supposed to make every attempt to get yourself and the subject off the ground. Also the use of handcuffs on a compative person is against rules. All of those issues could be coached for.

As for the LOD, they're trained to never intervene in physical situations.