My Time as an ETL

can't touch this said:
Millennials do the culty bullshit thing at every company they're allowed to run, so look forward to it being universal pretty soon. All of em are shat out of the same business schools these days... Target is far from the only company that got flipped/turned upside down by a rampaging Millennial with a "vision". Apple I believe was the O.G. pioneer of this type of corporate "culture" back when everybody else was still content to get they capitalism on from 9-5, Monday through Friday, show up, do some paid work for your boss and go the fuck home, nice and utilitarian. Quoth the Millennial, "Nevermore."
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While your point is well-taken, and some of Target's newer senior bigwigs are millenials, CEO Brian Cornell was born in 1958. He's definitely not a millenial.
 
As my mother-in-law always says, "It's their shoe store".

Large, successful retail corporations need uniform policies and procedures to maintain a consistent standard throughout hundreds or thousands of stores. There is not much room for free thinkers or innovators. This applies to many retail companies.
 
happygoth said:
As my mother-in-law always says, "It's their shoe store".

Large, successful retail corporations need uniform policies and procedures to maintain a consistent standard throughout hundreds or thousands of stores. There is not much room for free thinkers or innovators. This applies to many retail companies.
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Which is a great idea, IF all the stores actually followed policies and procedures.
There is a reason ASANTS is a thing.
The pressure to meet standards results in STLs (or whatever they call them these days) MSUATGA (making shit up as they go along) because they really have no understanding of leadership and how to manage due to Spot keeping them in dark and feeding them bullshit.
By having mostly young eager folks (Rock was an outlier) as the bulk of their STLs who only know the Target method, they cut their own throats.
 
jackandcat said:
Do you have a link to the "before you sign your life away" post?
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www.thebreakroom.org

Before you sign your life away...

And some people hoped that this would go away... Full disclosure, I was (as so many others I see posting here) an ETL hire straight out of college, and turned frequently to this site for tips and advice prior to taking the offer and donning my red and khaki. Although there's already a...
www.thebreakroom.org www.thebreakroom.org
 
commiecorvus said:
Which is a great idea, IF all the stores actually followed policies and procedures. There is a reason ASANTS is a thing.
The pressure to meet standards results in STLs (or whatever they call them these days) MSUATGA (making shit up as they go along) because they really have no understanding of leadership and how to manage due to Spot keeping them in dark and feeding them bullshit. By having mostly young eager folks (Rock was an outlier) as the bulk of their STLs who only know the Target method, they cut their own throats.
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Good points. Far too many "young eager folks" who are getting Bachelor's degrees today are not being taught critical thinking skills (how to think for yourself, how to independently analyze, how to see a different person's point-of-view) as well as they were in the 1990s. Your point about MSUATGA is right to the point. While right now Target is benefiting from the COVID-19 economic shutdown, if the COVID-19 aftermath becomes an ugly long-term serious recession, Target will not be exempt from the pain facing other businesses.
 
IhateOPmodel said:
I can't believe you left your high paying job at Target, I guess you weren't so good at your job anyways.
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I second every word he typed. I make much more at a different company, 40 hours, M-F with holidays and benefits Target never would dream of offering! I tell everyone I know left behind to consider moving on... for most, the grass IS greener on the other side from Target.
 
happygoth said:
As my mother-in-law always says, "It's their shoe store"..... Large, successful retail corporations need uniform policies and procedures to maintain a consistent standard throughout hundreds or thousands of stores. There is not much room for free thinkers or innovators. This applies to many retail companies.
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Good observations. In some areas of the company, like development of products and purchasing decisions, there is room for "free thinkers or innovators" but they are still subject to the "the bean counters".

As for store operations, I think policies and procedures need to be consistent. It would help if Corporate marketing would simplify some tricky or (arguably) deceptive promotional practices, such as some of the category "$10 Target gift card" deals, which then force store-level staff to deal with angry guests.

Although far, far worse than what's happening at Target: I recall that for a couple of decades Wells Fargo (another Minneapolis-based company formed from a merger of Norwest Bank with California-based Wells Fargo & Co.) had embraced an aggressive growth strategy: aggressive cross-selling products and services to the customer base, no matter what it takes. It was based on a theory that a customer with just one product (like a plain savings account) is less likely to remain a loyal and profitable customer, and more likely to switch banks if a better deal comes along. By cleverly and aggressively cross-selling multiple products to a customer (checking, savings, line of credit, credit card, debit card, safe deposit box, home equity loan etc.), the bank has created a "relationship" with the customer. You'll give the customer some discounts on product pricing, but there's a much higher statistical likelihood that a "relationship banking" customer will be much more loyal and profitable than a one-product-only customer. The problem arises when Wells Fargo leadership became so obsessed with the "cross-selling" and "relationship banking" business model that they put enormous pressure on all customer-facing employees to meet aggressive sales quotas, basically at all levels of the organization pushing people to do "whatever it takes" to sign up customers with multiple products. You can read countless stories about how that all turned out when it blew up in Wells Fargo's corporate face in 2016.

Every once in a while, when we talk about Redcard sales goals, unconsciously I think about what happened when low-level Wells Fargo employees were pushed to do "whatever it takes" to aggressively peddle bank products to each and every customer, regardless of whether or not they needed the products.
 
jackandcat said:
Good observations. In some areas of the company, like development of products and purchasing decisions, there is room for "free thinkers or innovators" but they are still subject to the "the bean counters".

As for store operations, I think policies and procedures need to be consistent. It would help if Corporate marketing would simplify some tricky or (arguably) deceptive promotional practices, such as some of the category "$10 Target gift card" deals, which then force store-level staff to deal with angry guests.

Although far, far worse than what's happening at Target: I recall that for a couple of decades Wells Fargo (another Minneapolis-based company formed from a merger of Norwest Bank with California-based Wells Fargo & Co.) had embraced an aggressive growth strategy: aggressive cross-selling products and services to the customer base, no matter what it takes. It was based on a theory that a customer with just one product (like a plain savings account) is less likely to remain a loyal and profitable customer, and more likely to switch banks if a better deal comes along. By cleverly and aggressively cross-selling multiple products to a customer (checking, savings, line of credit, credit card, debit card, safe deposit box, home equity loan etc.), the bank has created a "relationship" with the customer. You'll give the customer some discounts on product pricing, but there's a much higher statistical likelihood that a "relationship banking" customer will be much more loyal and profitable than a one-product-only customer. The problem arises when Wells Fargo leadership became so obsessed with the "cross-selling" and "relationship banking" business model that they put enormous pressure on all customer-facing employees to meet aggressive sales quotas, basically at all levels of the organization pushing people to do "whatever it takes" to sign up customers with multiple products. You can read countless stories about how that all turned out when it blew up in Wells Fargo's corporate face in 2016.

Every once in a while, when we talk about Redcard sales goals, unconsciously I think about what happened when low-level Wells Fargo employees were pushed to do "whatever it takes" to aggressively peddle bank products to each and every customer, regardless of whether or not they needed the products.
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If you want what you just said in video form, I recommend Company Man's video on the scandal on Youtube. Good watch.
 
@Rock Lobster

We didn't converse too much but it was always nice seeing a fellow leader who actually understood the nuances of the log process.

I was never a Kool-Aid drinker so to speak, and it held me back greatly. I left after 12 years to pursue a 9-5 in the tech industry and I can echo everything you say.

The one thing that I can't escape even after being out of retail for years - is whenever I have downtime I feel the overwhelming urge that I -should- be doing something productive. That has never left me. I'm interested to see if you feel the same?
 
60SecondsRemaining said:
@Rock Lobster

We didn't converse too much but it was always nice seeing a fellow leader who actually understood the nuances of the log process.

I was never a Kool-Aid drinker so to speak, and it held me back greatly. I left after 12 years to pursue a 9-5 in the tech industry and I can echo everything you say.

The one thing that I can't escape even after being out of retail for years - is whenever I have downtime I feel the overwhelming urge that I -should- be doing something productive. That has never left me. I'm interested to see if you feel the same?

@Planosss are you still here man? Fuck off.

PS: I know that's going to get modded - worth it.
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Lol 😂
 
60SecondsRemaining said:
@Rock Lobster

We didn't converse too much but it was always nice seeing a fellow leader who actually understood the nuances of the log process.

I was never a Kool-Aid drinker so to speak, and it held me back greatly. I left after 12 years to pursue a 9-5 in the tech industry and I can echo everything you say.

The one thing that I can't escape even after being out of retail for years - is whenever I have downtime I feel the overwhelming urge that I -should- be doing something productive. That has never left me. I'm interested to see if you feel the same?

@Planosss are you still here man? Fuck off.

PS: I know that's going to get modded - worth it.
Click to expand...

Yes!!! That is the hardest part right now for me. I work basically 8-4 M-F, and its not too hard of a gig. I get caught up on purchase orders for our company and have to ask around for what else needs done in our facility (I help different departments all the time and head to the floor in a manufacturing world). I walk by people at the their desks who are just on websites all the time looking at personal stuff between their work, and they time their work out so it takes all day. The retail side of me is used to always having to keep moving because we NEVER had the resources to get the work done, and my current job we ALWAYS have the resources to get the job done with time to spare.
 
Rock Lobster said:
Yes!!! That is the hardest part right now for me. I work basically 8-4 M-F, and its not too hard of a gig. I get caught up on purchase orders for our company and have to ask around for what else needs done in our facility (I help different departments all the time and head to the floor in a manufacturing world). I walk by people at the their desks who are just on websites all the time looking at personal stuff between their work, and they time their work out so it takes all day. The retail side of me is used to always having to keep moving because we NEVER had the resources to get the work done, and my current job we ALWAYS have the resources to get the job done with time to spare.
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Amen. I left my "etl" role a little under a year ago as well not near as long and some of you but long enough. My current job I also find myself finishing my work so quickly and staying focused, while others are on phones and just chatting away. But I've always had that in me to stay focused and get the job done. With your other posts as well I 100% agree. Anytime I was critical and asked why or said hey here is a more efficient way I felt like I was treated differently. If you can't question something to see if you can improve it then that company will fail because of lack of innovation. Eventually it felt like I was being pushed out while giving it 110% every day. I didn't get an exit interview nor even a goodbye from the STL or district. My team threw a going away party which was amazing and when I visit I get hugs so must have done something right. Basically I could tell they were going to spin it/had been spinning it that I was so bad etc. I could go on and on but you have summarized it so well. Wish you all the best.
 
Rock Lobster said:
Yes!!! That is the hardest part right now for me. I work basically 8-4 M-F, and its not too hard of a gig. I get caught up on purchase orders for our company and have to ask around for what else needs done in our facility (I help different departments all the time and head to the floor in a manufacturing world). I walk by people at the their desks who are just on websites all the time looking at personal stuff between their work, and they time their work out so it takes all day. The retail side of me is used to always having to keep moving because we NEVER had the resources to get the work done, and my current job we ALWAYS have the resources to get the job done with time to spare.
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After leaving Target I worked for Michaels for a bit, which was even more insane than Target (but the company leadership and structure was incredible).

I work in the defense sector now doing research and technical writing/testing in the cybersecurity realm, and I CONSTANTLY feel like I'm not doing enough work. It's been quite some time and at this point I don't think the gogogo retail mentality ever leaves you.
 
60SecondsRemaining said:
After leaving Target I worked for Michaels for a bit, which was even more insane than Target (but the company leadership and structure was incredible).

I work in the defense sector now doing research and technical writing/testing in the cybersecurity realm, and I CONSTANTLY feel like I'm not doing enough work. It's been quite some time and at this point I don't think the gogogo retail mentality ever leaves you.
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Curious about Michael's! What was so crazy? A d honestly, if people have never done retail they just can't understand or appreciate how much goes into it.
 
StyleMaven1 said:
Curious about Michael's! What was so crazy? A d honestly, if people have never done retail they just can't understand or appreciate how much goes into it.
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They have an extremely lean management structure, One store manager, one assistant manager, and three leads. They have a much higher single item count (think of how many tiny little things are in a Michaels) with things like jewelry or beads or paints, so performing research and keeping the store zoned to POG is a huge, huge endeavor. Salaried leadership is leaned upon heavily to ensure the workload is managed properly, but since they're only two, the job is hectic and neverending, especially in fourth quarter.

That being said -

The DM does not have an office and their job is essentially to drive from store to store all day every single day providing support where needed. As a SM I saw my DM weekly, spoke every day. We saw our RVP probably monthly, and EVP/CEO a few times per year. The upper leadership was very in touch with the stores - if you had a problem they may not solve it but they would 100% try.

They empowered managers to be actual business owners. Christmas season and you're running out of wreaths? Another store in your district has a ton? Store to store transfer them, go rent a truck and get them. You're low on payroll but other nearby stores are struggling? See if your employees can go help and just transfer the payroll over.

The company as a whole valued common sense over policy for most things. We had an SOP that actually stated to use common sense. Once we had an art class that ran late, 30 people in the class...they all made oil paintings. When the class was over it was 9PM, dark, and pouring rain. No one in the class brought an umbrella. I charged out 30 umbrellas at 20 dollars a piece and gave one to each customer - those people will never forget that. It was a sound investment. My DM is fine with it - I didn't even need to ask, I just let him know after the fact.

Overall there just wasn't much red tape. If something needed done and you could get it done, your DM could make it happen for you pretty quickly.

There were definite down-sides, and I had my complaints, but as a whole I think the company did a very great job of keeping the gap between the top and the bottom squashed so to speak.
 
Log said:
Amen. I left my "etl" role a little under a year ago as well not near as long and some of you but long enough. My current job I also find myself finishing my work so quickly and staying focused, while others are on phones and just chatting away. But I've always had that in me to stay focused and get the job done. With your other posts as well I 100% agree. Anytime I was critical and asked why or said hey here is a more efficient way I felt like I was treated differently. If you can't question something to see if you can improve it then that company will fail because of lack of innovation. Eventually it felt like I was being pushed out while giving it 110% every day. I didn't get an exit interview nor even a goodbye from the STL or district. My team threw a going away party which was amazing and when I visit I get hugs so must have done something right. Basically I could tell they were going to spin it/had been spinning it that I was so bad etc. I could go on and on but you have summarized it so well. Wish you all the best.
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Yes, and unfortunately nobody "good" seems to make it anymore. The people I see promoting to SD now (or DSD) are people I would never choose to take with me to any company.
 
Rarejem said:
I have been with Target for a very long time. It wasn't always like this. Innovative thought, "challenging upward", E's of Excellence, sincere opportunities for moving upward, worthwhile training with an eye on helping tm's become their best, true guest first mentality, a real team spirit..... those are the things that kept me with the company. It is a very different place to work now... conformity and yes-man are nice ways to put it.
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I was trying to think of these things earlier as my coworker and I talked about how it just wasn't the same. I worked from 2005-2013 up to TL and then came back in 2018 part time style. It's radically different even from two years ago when I came back.
 

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