I'm Lost! The REDCard Thread

[thatcashierdude]

I believe they did this because people were committing fraud. They were getting people buying several hundred dollars worth of stuff, then withdrawing their money from the account before the red card transaction cleared. Then they were returning it the same or next day and getting cash.

I show guests the screen. If you enter the GSTL override, cash will come up - but I refuse to do it. I offer store credit instead.

I'm confused as to how this works? Does the REDcard debit transaction not immediately take hold of the funds in their checking account? So what your saying is someone buys a $25 item, buys with with red card debit, leaves and goes to bank, takes out the $25, returns for cash and gets $25 totaling $50. If they put that money in their checking account, won't they just get hit with the red card transaction a few days later still?

Yes. Or they wouldn't deposit the money and would just get hit with overdraft fees. Or maybe they pulled the receipt out of the trash and the item they're "returning" was actually just pulled off the floor.

 

[ChangeRequest]

Yea, we have the receipt thing all the time. I've been on LoA as a GSA for a few weeks, just got back and was confused by this change. No communication from my ETL-GE.

 

[redeye58]

I believe they did this because people were committing fraud. They were getting people buying several hundred dollars worth of stuff, then withdrawing their money from the account before the red card transaction cleared. Then they were returning it the same or next day and getting cash.

This sounds like an updated version of check-kiting.
In earlier times, a kiter would go to bank A & open an acct with $100. They would then go to bank B & open an acct writing a check for $500 from the A acct. Next they'd go to bank C using a $1000 check written from bank B & open an acct.
Rinse & repeat until the amt was pretty high. The kiter would then go & close all the accts before the checks cleared (remember back then it took 10 working days for a check to clear) drawing a hefty amt out of the last acct. By the time the checks began to roll in, the accts were closed & the kiter long gone.
Because spot takes several days to post debits from a guest acct, the guest could rack up a hefty amt in debits & return the merchandise for cash before spot ever got the money.
And the guest could close the acct before spot ever saw a dime.

 

[neversaynever]

I'm confused as to how this works? Does the REDcard debit transaction not immediately take hold of the funds in their checking account? So what your saying is someone buys a $25 item, buys with with red card debit, leaves and goes to bank, takes out the $25, returns for cash and gets $25 totaling $50. If they put that money in their checking account, won't they just get hit with the red card transaction a few days later still?

No it does not place a hold on the funds. Despite what my leaders try to say, Target has NO ACCESS to your bank info beyond submitting an electronic check. It doesn't matter if you show them your balance and the debit purchase is declined. They aren't using that to approve it.

It is nothing more than an electronic check. My bank takes on average 4 days for it to clear, returns are currently taking 2 days to post. So I could have the money returned before I have had it taken out (had that happen once).there is a change to the return side of things - it did used to take eons, hence the cash part to be able to deposit it. Now I careless since the time is shorter.

Also, my store has always tried to avoid cash returns on debit cards..... It is a bad dream as a guest. Really bad.

 

[thatcashierdude]

I believe they did this because people were committing fraud. They were getting people buying several hundred dollars worth of stuff, then withdrawing their money from the account before the red card transaction cleared. Then they were returning it the same or next day and getting cash.

This sounds like an updated version of check-kiting.
In earlier times, a kiter would go to bank A & open an acct with $100. They would then go to bank B & open an acct writing a check for $500 from the A acct. Next they'd go to bank C using a $1000 check written from bank B & open an acct.
Rinse & repeat until the amt was pretty high. The kiter would then go & close all the accts before the checks cleared (remember back then it took 10 working days for a check to clear) drawing a hefty amt out of the last acct. By the time the checks began to roll in, the accts were closed & the kiter long gone.
Because spot takes several days to post debits from a guest acct, the guest could rack up a hefty amt in debits & return the merchandise for cash before spot ever got the money.
And the guest could close the acct before spot ever saw a dime.

To sign up for one the guest has to provide an ID and SSN so target could go after them through that information. If the electronic checks bounce on the closed account then target charges a fee, and eventually would probably sell the account to a collections company.

 

[Retail Girl]

I believe they did this because people were committing fraud. They were getting people buying several hundred dollars worth of stuff, then withdrawing their money from the account before the red card transaction cleared. Then they were returning it the same or next day and getting cash.

This sounds like an updated version of check-kiting.
In earlier times, a kiter would go to bank A & open an acct with $100. They would then go to bank B & open an acct writing a check for $500 from the A acct. Next they'd go to bank C using a $1000 check written from bank B & open an acct.
Rinse & repeat until the amt was pretty high. The kiter would then go & close all the accts before the checks cleared (remember back then it took 10 working days for a check to clear) drawing a hefty amt out of the last acct. By the time the checks began to roll in, the accts were closed & the kiter long gone.
Because spot takes several days to post debits from a guest acct, the guest could rack up a hefty amt in debits & return the merchandise for cash before spot ever got the money.
And the guest could close the acct before spot ever saw a dime.

To sign up for one the guest has to provide an ID and SSN so target could go after them through that information. If the electronic checks bounce on the closed account then target charges a fee, and eventually would probably sell the account to a collections company.

IDs are easily faked. And with corporate's pushing down on stores for REDcards, the ID that we will take to get that application is pretty loose. Also, punching in a fake SSN wouldn't take more than switching a few numbers on the application. All they have to do is steal a check, enter in some information, fake the stuff they aren't sure about, and voila' they can use the card for a couple of days, do a couple of returns and drop it before the victim realizes what happened.

 

[thatcashierdude]

I believe they did this because people were committing fraud. They were getting people buying several hundred dollars worth of stuff, then withdrawing their money from the account before the red card transaction cleared. Then they were returning it the same or next day and getting cash.

This sounds like an updated version of check-kiting.
In earlier times, a kiter would go to bank A & open an acct with $100. They would then go to bank B & open an acct writing a check for $500 from the A acct. Next they'd go to bank C using a $1000 check written from bank B & open an acct.
Rinse & repeat until the amt was pretty high. The kiter would then go & close all the accts before the checks cleared (remember back then it took 10 working days for a check to clear) drawing a hefty amt out of the last acct. By the time the checks began to roll in, the accts were closed & the kiter long gone.
Because spot takes several days to post debits from a guest acct, the guest could rack up a hefty amt in debits & return the merchandise for cash before spot ever got the money.
And the guest could close the acct before spot ever saw a dime.

To sign up for one the guest has to provide an ID and SSN so target could go after them through that information. If the electronic checks bounce on the closed account then target charges a fee, and eventually would probably sell the account to a collections company.

IDs are easily faked. And with corporate's pushing down on stores for REDcards, the ID that we will take to get that application is pretty loose. Also, punching in a fake SSN wouldn't take more than switching a few numbers on the application. All they have to do is steal a check, enter in some information, fake the stuff they aren't sure about, and voila' they can use the card for a couple of days, do a couple of returns and drop it before the victim realizes what happened.

Good point, and I guess that's why we don't do cash returns for the debit redcard anymore. I always wondered why it wanted us to swipe the card, the POS doesn't need that information to refund since it's a store issued card.

 

[Gulfcoast]

Anyone got a link to the REAL information, or a breakdown for me ? I'm getting reamed over my cashiers not knowing exactly what it stands for and means, despite them apparently practicing it (ie, the standard pitch I give them to start from is, "greet the guest and then immediately after pleasantries hit them with 'And are you you going to be saving 5% today with your target debit card?'" Which is apparently REAL.)

I've spent around three hours over the last few weeks trying in vain to dig up information on redwire and workbench, to no avail.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

Might be this thread:
http://www.thebreakroom.org/index.p...n-and-scare-tactics-regarding-red-cards.8913/

 

[Gulfcoast]

Might be this thread:
http://www.thebreakroom.org/index.p...n-and-scare-tactics-regarding-red-cards.8913/

No dice. REAL is apparently the new acronym of the quarter that someone got paid six figures to think up.

I need the exact acronym, so I can train my cashiers to parrot it back to the DTL and the big wig visitors we're getting soon, apparently.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

I found it! It's called red cards are REAL.

So have any stores received this rollout?
Once again, Target has determined that people don't know how to do their jobs and need to make processes more complicated then they need... This time it is with RedCards.

Redcards are REAL

R-Recongize current cardholders and remind them of benefits
E- Educate non-cardholders
A- Ask for an application
L-(Forgot)

Basically, the cashiers are now expected to ask EVERY guest, whether prompted or not, to ask about the RedCards. All applications are now equally weighted... Although I'm still not sure if converison is still based on prompts or total transactions. The only departments not expected to ask is RX, Food Ave, Starbucks.

If the guest has a RedCard, the cashier is recognize the guest for being a card holder and to remind them of the benefits of being a cardholder. If not, the cashier is to educate the guest on the benefits, then ask for an application. If the answer is no, the cashier is then to "educate" the guest on cartwheel, Target mobile, etc.

Applications are to be asked from everyone... because it's the "law" under the Fair Credit act or some BS. Cashiers have been threatened that if they don't ask EVERY guest they will be coached for "breaking the law."

The rollout guide is laughible.. "To bring joy to the frontend"... What is "joyful" about RedCards? And RedCards are "REAL?" Wait, I thought they were fake...

My cashiers routinely ask each for RedCards... But now the etl-ge (who is transferring) is requiring them to follow the canned script in the guide or they risk getting 'coached.'

SO glad I'm leaving in a few days...

http://www.thebreakroom.org/index.php?threads/redcards-are-real.8261/

 

[Gulfcoast]

@Hardlinesmaster

Thanks HLM. You've always got the right link, even when my own searches fail. Appreciate it.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

@Hardlinesmaster

Thanks HLM. You've always got the right link, even when my own searches fail. Appreciate it.

Glad to help! It the first of 2 threads related to the Redcard are real event. The 2nd thread was the first thread I mentioned. Sorry for the delay. But, after a few brews, I did remember.

 

[EllJayBee]

Firstly, sorry for starting another REDcard thread, but I did search and couldn't see an answer anywhere.

I've been an employee for around a month, but the past week I haven't managed to get any REDcards - yeah, we all know that that doesn't go down to well! I got told that it's not good enough, and it's kind of frustrating, considering it's out of your control - if you're asking everyone and no one wants one, then what can you do! (Apparently not take no for an answer, according to one GSTL but I digress)

I remember someone mentioning handing out Debit Card applications to guests who might seem 'on the fence' about applying, I presume with the thought that they are more likely to apply if they see this when they're home and have their checks around.

Would such an application still count towards my REDcard conversion? One colleague said to write my name, employee number and store in the box that states 'Office Use' at the bottom, another said we are not to write there under any circumstances?

People seem a lot more willing to take applications home and do it in their own time, so it would be great if someone could clear this up for me! I probably shouldn't be so concerned as I unfortunately have to leave at the end of November but I'm sure they won't let me off until then!

Thanks!

 

[bullseyekindaguy]

I've heard that if a guest completed a mail-in or online application, the store nearest the address provided on the form will receive credit for the application. This may explain why you'll get a 'mystery' redcard app on the LPDA.

As for it counting toward your idividual score... I believe you are supposed to write your information in. But I couldn't tell you if it counts or not

 

[commiecorvus]

I'm going to leave this as an individual thread for a bit so you can get an answer to your question then I'm going to put it in the Redcard thread.

 

[doodlebug]

I've heard conflicting things about putting your team member number on it too...I would think that if we were not supposed to put our info on there, there wouldn't be a spot for you to fill that info out??? That's just my thinking though. I don't hand them out at all now. It's easier to try and get the guest to come back next time with a check or go online and apply and hope that my store is the store closest to them so we get the conversion credit.

 

[FlowChick]

Question!!! So I've been told by multiple people that all Red Card debit purchase returns can only be credited to a gift card or back to your red card...

Okay according to the return policy on Target.com http://help.target.com/help/subcategoryarticle?childcat=Return policy&parentcat=Returns & Exchanges

It says that I can get cash back!!! WTF!? I've had other store TM's tell me the same, so which is it? I know it does give you the option on the register to give cash back because a newbie gave me cash back once before I knew you supposedly can't......

Again, I have the DEBIT version of the Redcard. NOT the CREDIT CARD.

 

[Nauzhror]

The debit version used to have an option to give cash back, it now requires a override to allow cash back,, except, y'know, when it doesn't.

By that I mean every now and then I see the option show up, but have found no clear pattern to why it sometimes does show up but usually doesn't.

Until recently you had to swipe the debit card for it to go back into the checking account, and cash was always an option, but about a month or so ago they made it default to back into the checking and not require swiping the card to do such any longer.

Personally at our store we just override it anytime the guest requests cash back.

 

[FlowChick]

The debit version used to have an option to give cash back, it now requires a override to allow cash back,, except, y'know, when it doesn't.

By that I mean every now and then I see the option show up, but have found no clear pattern to why it sometimes does show up but usually doesn't.

Until recently you had to swipe the debit card for it to go back into the checking account, and cash was always an option, but about a month or so ago they made it default to back into the checking and not require swiping the card to do such any longer.

Personally at our store we just override it anytime the guest requests cash back.

Hmm...so basically I would have to be THAT GIRL and show them the copy of the policy online to get cash back? I mean they should really update it if isn't an option anymore......

Why is it an issue anyway? It's directly linked to your checking/savings. It's like when you request cash back during a purchase.......

 

[Retail Girl]

Because it isn't a direct link...IE the purchase has to clear, it was possible for people to bounce a purchase and return it for cash before Target got screwed on the funds when it sent to the bank the next day (or two or whatever).

So we suspect they put the kabosh on cash refunds to limit their liability.

That said, my store generally won't override it. Most of us do the transaction so quickly that by the time we tell the guest it went back to their account, they just say, "ok." But you are right, they need to update their web site.

But I suspect they might have let us know when they sent out the updated privacy policy and TOS last month, but I never read it before I threw it out, and no one here mentioned if they read it or not when I asked.

 

[FlowChick]

Makes sense but I work there! Why would I try to screw over my job?

 

[Retail Girl]

Makes sense but I work there! Why would I try to screw over my job?

I'll let someone from ap answer that question. There are plenty of employees willing to steal from their jobs. And Target is no exception.

I will say this, though, remember...Target has no loyalty to anyone but the bottom line. They don't give a crap about any of us and we will all be gone tomorrow if they deem it good for them.

 

[FlowChick]

You're right. But still....ughh.

 

[Patty]

My redcard is attached to joint checking account. I have my own checking account- Target wont let me use it with employee discount card- I said to never mind the discount and I was told cant use a debit card at all -what the heck????????