Archived Unionize

[Fluttervale]

My wife was a teachers union steward.
Many of the teachers would ask for her specifically and they had to delay the discipline until she was available.
It's kind of like asking for your lawyer.
Don't let the boss pick who is going to be standing up for you.

Teacher unions are much more powerful than retail unions, though. They have way more clout. In my area retail workers only get a witness. The steward is not a lawyer, just a witness. The union rep oversees several locations and appeals the discipline.

 

[can't touch this]

for the 1,000th time:

I understand the sentiment behind wanting a union, but with things being the way they are it's not unlike wanting your own planet or a trillion dollars or, most hilariously of all, world peace. You will get your trillion dollars much sooner that Target will ever allow a unionized store to stay open, period end of story. Remember when Target announced their stance on bathrooms and you said to yourself "I will be giving Target ALL of my money for being inclusive and supporting LGBTQ+!!!!!" well as much as I hate to be the bearer of bad news, it turns out that Target has what you might call the Galt's Gulch mindset that they like to pull out of their bag of tricks whenever it looks like they might actually have to put up outlay for things other than executive compensation and renting bougie convention center space. If there's a store out there that wants to brave Sauron's gaze and collectively vote to seal their own doom, knock yourselves out. Unless it's my store, then fuck y'all because the next store over is too fucking far away to transfer to.

well seeya~

 

[bikebryan]

I'm a union steward and in my workplace, I am very pro-union. However, unions are not always the answer.

1. Unions only have the power agreed upon both sides in their Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA), Master Agreement (MA), or Contract. Call it what you will. While unions dither over contracts, you can be fired. Picket? Well, since the union does not have a contract, they do not have any representational rights for you. Walk out and picket? Well, as far as the employer is concerned you have abandoned your job and can easily hire and replace you. Do you really believe that Target would roll over and agree to a contract as you seem to describe?

2. I've looked over many CBAs, MAs and contracts. Usually stewards can only be present during discipline meetings. In those instances, you can ask for representation and usually the meeting must wait for them to be present or rescheduled. You can ask for a certain steward, but most contracts state ANY steward will do, so if a steward is available but not the one you requested, tough.

3. Unions usually can't do shit for you for conduct problems. Mouth off? Too bad. Bad work history/constantly calling in and/or not showing up? Tough.

4. Seldom do unions prevent passing of costs of health insurance off to employees. As bad as everyone thinks their premiums are, you only pay the tip of the iceberg. The corporation picks up the vast majority of it - which is why they try to reduce the number of employees who qualify for said benefits. Corporate survival. Sad but true. Unions cannot stop them.

5. Unions cannot control "business needs", including staffing, pay levels, etc. Overtime issues, advancement, and things like that would have to be negotiated.

6. Union at an impasse with management? OK, now it likely becomes an FLRA issue. Going before those boards can take years.

Still want a union?

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

Union Blasts Target Closure

Union Blasts Target Closure

m.huffpost.com

 

[Fluttervale]

I'm a union steward and in my workplace, I am very pro-union. However, unions are not always the answer.

1. Unions only have the power agreed upon both sides in their Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA), Master Agreement (MA), or Contract. Call it what you will. While unions dither over contracts, you can be fired. Picket? Well, since the union does not have a contract, they do not have any representational rights for you. Walk out and picket? Well, as far as the employer is concerned you have abandoned your job and can easily hire and replace you. Do you really believe that Target would roll over and agree to a contract as you seem to describe?

2. I've looked over many CBAs, MAs and contracts. Usually stewards can only be present during discipline meetings. In those instances, you can ask for representation and usually the meeting must wait for them to be present or rescheduled. You can ask for a certain steward, but most contracts state ANY steward will do, so if a steward is available but not the one you requested, tough.

3. Unions usually can't do shit for you for conduct problems. Mouth off? Too bad. Bad work history/constantly calling in and/or not showing up? Tough.

4. Seldom do unions prevent passing of costs of health insurance off to employees. As bad as everyone thinks their premiums are, you only pay the tip of the iceberg. The corporation picks up the vast majority of it - which is why they try to reduce the number of employees who qualify for said benefits. Corporate survival. Sad but true. Unions cannot stop them.

5. Unions cannot control "business needs", including staffing, pay levels, etc. Overtime issues, advancement, and things like that would have to be negotiated.

6. Union at an impasse with management? OK, now it likely becomes an FLRA issue. Going before those boards can take years.

Still want a union?

Another thing the contract at my previous employer did was allow me to keep anyone an additional four hours, and so long as I notified them at least a hour before their shift ended, they HAD to stay or be termed for walking off the job. Kids at daycare? Plans? No ride home? Not management’s problem. You got time and a half only if it was above eight hours in a row.

I only did it twice under some pretty hefty circumstances, and only because no one would come in or voluntarily stay. (Related to shutting down the registers and securing the money. Management was not contractually allowed to do it and no one who was allowed and trained was willing. If I did it, they could and would grieve it and be paid the time and a half ANYWAYS so I figured fuck that.)

 

[can't touch this]

 

[garbage]

My wife was a teachers union steward.
Many of the teachers would ask for her specifically and they had to delay the discipline until she was available.
It's kind of like asking for your lawyer.
Don't let the boss pick who is going to be standing up for you.

But we have HR

 

[commiecorvus]

I'm a union steward and in my workplace, I am very pro-union. However, unions are not always the answer.

1. Unions only have the power agreed upon both sides in their Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA), Master Agreement (MA), or Contract. Call it what you will. While unions dither over contracts, you can be fired. Picket? Well, since the union does not have a contract, they do not have any representational rights for you. Walk out and picket? Well, as far as the employer is concerned you have abandoned your job and can easily hire and replace you. Do you really believe that Target would roll over and agree to a contract as you seem to describe?

2. I've looked over many CBAs, MAs and contracts. Usually stewards can only be present during discipline meetings. In those instances, you can ask for representation and usually the meeting must wait for them to be present or rescheduled. You can ask for a certain steward, but most contracts state ANY steward will do, so if a steward is available but not the one you requested, tough.

3. Unions usually can't do shit for you for conduct problems. Mouth off? Too bad. Bad work history/constantly calling in and/or not showing up? Tough.

4. Seldom do unions prevent passing of costs of health insurance off to employees. As bad as everyone thinks their premiums are, you only pay the tip of the iceberg. The corporation picks up the vast majority of it - which is why they try to reduce the number of employees who qualify for said benefits. Corporate survival. Sad but true. Unions cannot stop them.

5. Unions cannot control "business needs", including staffing, pay levels, etc. Overtime issues, advancement, and things like that would have to be negotiated.

6. Union at an impasse with management? OK, now it likely becomes an FLRA issue. Going before those boards can take years.

Still want a union?

Nobody said unions were perfect.
They aren't superheros that make everything okay.

1) Work slowdowns have been shown to do as well as walkouts. The "I'm working exactly to spec method". If every worker is doing it there isn't much the company can do except a lockout which puts the burden on the company.

2) I was talking about disciplinary meetings. Anytime the boss calls someone into a room, they get representation. If nothing else it means they can't force you to do things against your best interest.

3) And, of course, if you are a dick you will get fired.
The union won't protect you on that, despite what all the bad propaganda pumped out by the Koch brothers.
Unions don't protect awful teachers or keep dangerous truckers on the road.
All of that stuff is just right wing talking points and in the case of the teachers, I know from experience, lazy administrators who don't want to do the proper paperwork.

4) Some unions handle the insurance themselves taking the companies control over what is paid away. I was lucky as a kid with epilepsy to be on my fathers Carpenter's Union insurance because it was top of the line. You do pay higher union dues but the company does pay for it as well.

5) They do help to keep those business needs from breaking people. I had been hit by a car and was in deep financial trouble when I came to work at the grocery store. I hadn't been there for a couple of weeks when my kids called to tell me that got home from school and the power had been turned off. I didn't have anyway of paying the power company to turn it back on. The union gave me the money out of its emergency fund. Unions take care of their people.

6) Companies have been working hard to make them weaker for decades and if their members won't stand up, it limits what they can do.
The companies hire special teams of lawyers (Jackson Lewis is a big one) who specialize in taking down unions.
These guys fly around the country with private jets, jumping in when there is a possibility of a union starting or getting called in to crush a union that looks weak.
If you are interested in a good article on the subject check this out.

Unionbusting Confidential - http://inthesetimes.com/article/3326/unionbusting_confidential/

There is a reason so many people in this generation hate unions.
A bunch of very rich people have been working to make you feel that way.

 

[busyzoningtoys]

 

[rog the dog]

Shit the anti union stuff doesn't make me mad as much as the fact that Target's kinda failing at the staying competitive with grocery stores thing

 

[ntauctions]

If a business is anti-union I take that to mean there is benefit to the employees for joining.

I've heard stories where if Walmart leadership hears rumors of their employees wanting to unionize there is a special corporate team that'll be in the next flight out to that store to shut that talk down. If they are so concerned about employees wanting to unionize then there must be some benefit to them to make sure they don't. What is that?

 

[can't touch this]

As much as I want to agree with the logic that if a corporation hates something it must be good, it's not always true. It means that the inverse must also be true, and we can reduce it to absurdity by claiming that since corporations by their nature like...say...economic stability, we need to have a total societal collapse just to spite them. Nah.

The main thing I take issue with is the claim that anybody who doesn't want a union must be bamboozled by David Koch. I promise to God I'm not a Koch-head.

Unions can work if everything is configured ideally; the problem is that this happens basically nowhere on Earth except maybe Iceland. Literally 90% of island-Vikings are in a union. If I were an island-Viking and lived in Iceland with its gloriously low population of only 340,000 people (funny because that's also almost exactly how many people work for Target) I have no doubt I would be Ragnar the Union Steward stacking these króna like there's no tomorrow. Alas. Sometimes you just have to come to terms with the fact that things be like that sometimes and we can't always change the world.

 

[NPC]

for the 1,000th time:

I understand the sentiment behind wanting a union, but with things being the way they are it's not unlike wanting your own planet or a trillion dollars or, most hilariously of all, world peace. You will get your trillion dollars much sooner that Target will ever allow a unionized store to stay open, period end of story. Remember when Target announced their stance on bathrooms and you said to yourself "I will be giving Target ALL of my money for being inclusive and supporting LGBTQ+!!!!!" well as much as I hate to be the bearer of bad news, it turns out that Target has what you might call the Galt's Gulch mindset that they like to pull out of their bag of tricks whenever it looks like they might actually have to put up outlay for things other than executive compensation and renting bougie convention center space. If there's a store out there that wants to brave Sauron's gaze and collectively vote to seal their own doom, knock yourselves out. Unless it's my store, then fuck y'all because the next store over is too fucking far away to transfer to.

well seeya~

But but but, what about the good ol' days? Unions in retail have lost their relevance.

 

[commiecorvus]

But but but, what about the good ol' days? Unions in retail have lost their relevance.

Not so much their relevance but their clout.
They would be every bit as relevant as they once were if they hadn't been undercut, along with most of the other unions, over the years.
Do you think wages would be so crap if there had been strong unions?

The good old days existed for a reason.
One of them was strong unions.
Other countries, besides Iceland, have a massive union presence.
In fact most of the countries that fall under the rubric of Social Democracies (also the countries that consistently come out as the happiest every year) .
Unions tend to be the core of their countries and are part of the reason that crony capitalism never gained a foothold.
The whole 'for the needs of the company' does not trump the employees having a life.
The companies do just fine with this understanding and make money.

 

[GozerZuul]

i hate that phrase."the needs of the company". fine. im GozerZuul Inc., the needs of my business are to pay my overhead to keep my business running as well as turn a profit. according to my accountant, Gozer Zuul (no relation), you account "Target" is currently dragging my company down to being closed soon. -we talk about it- ok, based on your new offer of hours it looks like we can keep your account on.-Target😱h and can we get the "open avail" option for future offers?- you haven't ever used that.-but we need it to be able to further use your services!-. now imagine if you will every person treated their life like a business does, no one would work retail and many of us would have a better work experience and hours. america will never go back to unions because im surrounded by people who are "yes" people and then dont even accomplish what they agree to in the end. unions won't save us, standing up without a centralized target for the bastards to hit will work. but everyone refuses to do so because their comfy. maybe its just from my construction and factory days but back then (a decade ago pre crash) i worked with men and women who if we were treated like we are now would have ALL left, job security or not. but after the crash im seeing timid people replacing them.for god sakes im only in my mid 30's and i feel like society is falling apart, shit or get off the pot. (a bit aggressive but i hear 18 and 19 year olds at work bitch but never tell their bosses or anyone really. tired of hearing it).

 

[can't touch this]

but everyone refuses to do so because their comfy.

It has nothing to do with comfort and everything to do with perceived risk. Normies have EVERYTHING to lose by tickling the sleeping dragon and they are more than willing to accept suboptimal job conditions if the only alternative is being unemployed. I think a lot of people forget just how much money these companies are sitting on, and consider also that they're anticipating that labor will soon be a post-scarce, infinite resource anyway. Falling on your sword in this scenario is the exact same as those bizarre protests in Southeast Asia by monks who douse themselves in gasoline and self-immolate. Narrator: The problem didn't go away and he died in a fire.

In politics you get the same sort of sentiment from the vocal hyper-political minority that always complains out loud "UGH if these fucking normies with jobs and families and obligations and tight budgets would just drop everything and start picketing for my cause every single second of every day then we might actually make some progress UGH" ...it's one of those things that should be self-evident but is apparently a huge hangup for some

 

[GozerZuul]

NORMIES! REEE! in all seriousness, i was blowing off steam. were getting it from both sides (and not in a fun way). i got a 1 on 1 where i was told the usual "your but but you could improve on y" which is the usual anyway, but then they turn around and in a personal convo say "your doing SO much better than the others are". really? then wheres my hours? why you dogging me like a bitch? etc. lets just say i got a "sailors mouth" as my ma says and dont put up with much. its what has kept me as the "glory" child at work. not putting up with excuses that are excuses, working hard, etc. ya know the american way🙂 but then they hire new people at my current wage and yet im suppose to do all the work i was along with the new why the newbs who have been here for 6+months are handled with kid gloves?! are you kidding me! im the last of the old crew. most left but i stuck around to see how its going. guess i shoulda found a life boat when others were yelling smoke, but im stubborn like that.ill put my sword away for now and hide my gasoline can but in the end, im just bitching on the internet🙂