Archived Why does Target seem to struggle to make ends meet. Especially with having enough employee

[glo]

In addition to sales, there are numerous factors taken into consideration when calculating payroll for individual stores. I can assure you that STLs do not receive any benefits for not using up all of their payroll.

Golden contribution.
Over sales under payroll. ETLs and STLs get a bonus for it.

 

[Yetive]

Yup. DTL has asked for an explanation of why we left 200 hours "on the table" before. Oversaving on payroll is not good business. Some stores are more efficient than others, some have greater AP needs, some have different food service departments, and those can suck up payroll quickly.

 

[NPC]

I've had more than one STL/ETL ask me if I wanted more hours for the week or to stay late because if they didn't use up the allotted hours then in the next period Spot would take those hours away.

And, of course, we were making sales.

I've had that happen multiple times as well. But that doesn't mean what SrBullshitter is saying is totally honest either.

 

[Kartman]

There is always something that need/can be done, somewhere in the store.

 

[HRZone]

Plus, ETLs/STLs getting their TMs all prim and proper, giving reminders about goals, RCs, zones etc. all for naught. Anti-climatic and annoying.

"I want you to be natural but if they ask you about selling say...

 

[HRZone]

I've had that happen multiple times as well. But that doesn't mean what SrBullshitter is saying is totally honest either.

No need for the personal attack.

Just like missing payroll is bad, like @Yetive said making it by too many hours isn't good either. They want you to make payroll as close to exact as you can.

If you have worked in a successful store before. The last month the leaders are literally handing out hours like candy.

Unless said STL is gunning for a DTL position

Unused payroll hours make the DTL look bad. We have gotten emails from our DTL we need to spend our payroll.

When we have extra payroll we spend it on projects.

I have a hard time believing those factors truly account for the total workload difference in the stores. We get the same number of trucks, similar foot traffic, similar shopper demographics, similar floor setups, etc., etc.

So what "other" factors account for a 30% difference in hours when store sales are less than 5% apart?

Is it actually a 30% difference? I doubt it. My store is a LV volume and the AA volume a few towns over barely gets 30% more hours than we do.

 

[StargazerOmega]

"I want you to be natural but if they ask you about selling say...

"Tell me our RedCard goal for the day."
"XX."
"Good. How many do we have so far?"
"X."
"Right! They may ask you that so keep it in mind and be on your best behavior. And smile!"
Yes, mommy. Tell it to our TMs that are constantly wandering off or playing Candy Crush on their phones...

 

[SrTLall]

I have a hard time believing those factors truly account for the total workload difference in the stores. We get the same number of trucks, similar foot traffic, similar shopper demographics, similar floor setups, etc., etc.

So what "other" factors account for a 30% difference in hours when store sales are less than 5% apart?


Unless said STL is gunning for a DTL position.

The things you listed are considered when formulating payroll. TM experience, turnover and important metrics are included as well. Ultimately, it's up to the DTL where the hours go. If a DTL has a poor performing store, I wouldn't be surprised if that store received additional help, as far as payroll. If a store is performing well, I wouldn't be surprised if a DTL trimmed that store's payroll and redistributed it throughout the rest of the district.

Golden contribution.
Over sales under payroll. ETLs and STLs get a bonus for it.

The key is under payroll. You can achieve golden contribution if you are 1 hour under payroll or 1000 hours under payroll. However, as multiple other have already pointed out in this thread, the more hours you save, the more negative consequences arise.

Again, STLs are not rewarded for saving a lot of payroll. Sure, every store needs to be fiscally accountable and not spend more payroll than you are allocated, but saving a ton of hours is not beneficial to anyone, including STLs. Ask @Rock Lobster when the last time they or their STL received any sort of benefit from repeatedly saving 30% payroll.

As long as we are on the topic of payroll, I might as well point ot these 2 recent changes: stores can no longer lose payroll by missing sales forecasts, and flex hours gained during the first half of the month are not all lost if your sales tank during the second half of the month. (Flex hours are hours of payroll gained by doing more sales vs forecast).

 

[Backroom81]

Is it actually a 30% difference? I doubt it.

Yes, it is. Doubt it all you like.

Ultimately, it's up to the DTL where the hours go. If a DTL has a poor performing store, I wouldn't be surprised if that store received additional help, as far as payroll. If a store is performing well, I wouldn't be surprised if a DTL trimmed that store's payroll and redistributed it throughout the rest of the district.

Or an STL with promotion aspirations being called "payroll captain" and is all to happy to continually gut our store. I don't see an A+ store with only 4 cashiers scheduled for the entire day so our E2E team is constantly on the lanes while freight sits unworked in the backroom for several days as "performing well". There's nothing I love more than hearing "we made sales for the week by over $30,000" be almost immediately followed by "every work center needs to cut 50-100 hours".

As long as we are on the topic of payroll, I might as well point ot these 2 recent changes: stores can no longer lose payroll by missing sales forecasts, and flex hours gained during the first half of the month are not all lost if your sales tank during the second half of the month. (Flex hours are hours of payroll gained by doing more sales vs forecast).

I've heard that but I have yet to see it treated any differently.

 

[2448]

The problem is at this point there is a HUGE disconnect between what the upper leadership thinks is happening versus what the stores are experiencing (and most stores are experiencing varying degrees of these problems). The GVPs and above (to the CEO) get a red carpet laid out in front of them before they show up. Stores know when they are coming, and STLs/DTLs move payroll to the stores that are going to be seeing the upper leadership to patch the stores back together most of the time. The upper leadership walks the store and sees a great building and then leaves.

If they really wanted to see what the buildings look like most of the time, go to a visit announced and then turn around and go to the same building 3 days later when they cut all the payroll back down to normal levels and let the store fall back apart.

If they want an accurate picture, all stores are struggling right now. It is glaringly obvious that payroll has been reduced (and not evenly I'll add, still not sure why) across all stores over the last few years. While some things have been done to add it back, its still absurd. I had a 4100 hour week in a building after the "added" payroll for grocery and end to end stuff (we figured this would have been 3800 for a Super Target which is dumb). The buildings have not received enough resources or improvements to processes to allow for a reduction to this degree, yet that is what we are getting. I could keep going on this topic for a while, but really they should ask one question... What changes has the company made improvement wise to make our jobs easier and has the payroll be reduced proportionally? I would say no.

Agreed, you will never see an ETL work harder or sweat it out when they hear a visit is coming. Unless they have their shit together and are known to kick ass all the time. Rare. Its quite comical actually when the team members they don't like suddenly become someone they have to depend on and hope they don't do or say anything dumb during the visit.

 

[SrTLall]

Yes, it is. Doubt it all you like.



Or an STL with promotion aspirations being called "payroll captain" and is all to happy to continually gut our store. I don't see an A+ store with only 4 cashiers scheduled for the entire day so our E2E team is constantly on the lanes while freight sits unworked in the backroom for several days as "performing well". There's nothing I love more than hearing "we made sales for the week by over $30,000" be almost immediately followed by "every work center needs to cut 50-100 hours".



I've heard that but I have yet to see it treated any differently.

Why don't you just ask your STL - 'I've got a friend who works at our sister store and is always bragging about how they always get more hours than we do, why does that store get so much more payroll than us?'

I get the impression that you're embellishing the facts to make a point, so just ask your STL.

 

[2448]

Payroll must be met monthly. I've seen multiple stores in our district struggle, and since we are exceeding payroll we support out for a week over there. Or vice versa, last 4th qtr, our store struggle and we got some support from other stores.
I'm sure this is to please our DTLs obligations with payroll. I'm sure the STLs see the benefit come review time.

Good ol' boy back scratch.

 

[Fluttervale]

I have a hard time believing those factors truly account for the total workload difference in the stores. We get the same number of trucks, similar foot traffic, similar shopper demographics, similar floor setups, etc., etc.

So what "other" factors account for a 30% difference in hours when store sales are less than 5% apart?


Unless said STL is gunning for a DTL position.

I haven't been with Target long but there are a lot of factors that affect payroll hours. These are probably the biggest.

• Layout of the store. They factor how long a task takes by how many steps the associate completing it has to take. Two stores with the exact same sales can have a difference of a dozen or more hours just because the coolers are very far from the dock in one store and close in the other. Then there's everything else step based.
• What they sell. Two stores might have the same topline sales, but if one store contributes a significant amount more from a higher labor department, they can get a lot more hours that way. For example, $1000 extra in sales gets more hours in Starbucks than it does in Grocery.
• If you are a showpiece store. Your district manager has a certain level of control on who gets what hours. They will choose the stores that do the most with what they have, and the stores that visitors want to see. So if you have a big store that's just been remodeled and has new stuff, execs will want to see it. The DTL will want it to run with a few more hours so that frenzy isn't as bad.

 

[Cloudenix]

If the leadership team wants to see what a real store looks like, they should stop announcing their visits and just show up randomly. Of course the store is gonna look amazing when you have twice the normal amount of people closing the night before, and you have your star TMs there during the visit. I can’t count the amount of times I’ve closed the night before the visit and was back the next morning in case they wanted to ask the TMs about end to end. Maybe random visits will lead to changes.

 

[commiecorvus]

I've had that happen multiple times as well. But that doesn't mean what SrBullshitter is saying is totally honest either.

Yeah, but ... NO!

Disagree all you want.
Tell someone you think they are full of it.
But there is a point when you are crossing a line into, "Hey, we can't walk away from this".

Try thinking of it as the what kind of comment would I make to my cellmate in prison test.
You know, the person with no neck who took out four cops with their bare hands after being tasered.

 

[Digi_E]

its odd that a multi billion dollar company struggles to keep people around and get things done. What is it? Lack of hours? People? I find it irritating that my stl keeps the hours at the bare minimum so she can benefit financially. I mean why have a store struggle. Especially, when we have visits everyone is scrambling to MAKE things seem like they’re ok but everything isn’t . It’s ridiculous.

no STL hoards hours for their financial benefit, its usually banked incase flow or other teams overspend so your store is not overall in the red on payroll, this also affects your stores yearly reviews. Also when 1 or more stores in a district are over hours the stores that are green balance it out so the district overall does good. there alot of reasons behind the scenes why an STL holds hours. HQ is usually the culprit. the STL is just left to "figure it out"

 

[Digi_E]

The problem is at this point there is a HUGE disconnect between what the upper leadership thinks is happening versus what the stores are experiencing (and most stores are experiencing varying degrees of these problems). The GVPs and above (to the CEO) get a red carpet laid out in front of them before they show up. Stores know when they are coming, and STLs/DTLs move payroll to the stores that are going to be seeing the upper leadership to patch the stores back together most of the time. The upper leadership walks the store and sees a great building and then leaves.

If they really wanted to see what the buildings look like most of the time, go to a visit announced and then turn around and go to the same building 3 days later when they cut all the payroll back down to normal levels and let the store fall back apart.

If they want an accurate picture, all stores are struggling right now. It is glaringly obvious that payroll has been reduced (and not evenly I'll add, still not sure why) across all stores over the last few years. While some things have been done to add it back, its still absurd. I had a 4100 hour week in a building after the "added" payroll for grocery and end to end stuff (we figured this would have been 3800 for a Super Target which is dumb). The buildings have not received enough resources or improvements to processes to allow for a reduction to this degree, yet that is what we are getting. I could keep going on this topic for a while, but really they should ask one question... What changes has the company made improvement wise to make our jobs easier and has the payroll be reduced proportionally? I would say no.

i think the worst part is the disconnect is caused because everyone is trying to "look good" stl's overspending when visits come and making the stores look good, DTL's for tipping off stl's when the group is making rounds so that their district looks good, and it trickles up. HQ is out of touch because they are being lied to. Whenever HQ hits up stores and actually surprises them, they tend to make changes. the problem is there is also someone to warn the tribe.

 

[Digi_E]

He's right you know, infact STLS who don't use payroll are questioned by their leaders for it. It's a metric they are judged on.

Finally if you don't use payroll one year, you lose payroll the following year so ask any STL/ETL HR they want to make payroll by no more than 20 hours a month, otherwise it's a waste.



This is somewhat debateable... Don't forget they lowered expectations this year (Salesgoal is different from sales forecast) - by lowering the bar it's a bit easier to hit your goals.



Amen to this, the visit culture is toxic! I post this all the time but I can't say how many times we loaded our grid for a visit, then found out they weren't going to "make it" to our store that day.

those metrics are skewed, we also closed alot of stores that dont factor, and there are alot of new stores that had their forecasts dropped due to slow openings that are now comping double digits. so ofcourse as a whole comp is up.

 

[Digi_E]

Bullshit.

my STL has been coached before for underspending, had a whole meeting on it with us a while back. In fact the only time you can underspend and not get in trouble is if your flexing a ton the last week of the month and have no tm's to use them on, you are expected to offer those hours to your sister stores so you are all green.

 

[Backroom81]

Why don't you just ask your STL - 'I've got a friend who works at our sister store and is always bragging about how they always get more hours than we do, why does that store get so much more payroll than us?'

I get the impression that you're embellishing the facts to make a point, so just ask your STL.

Said friend is an ETL at sister store. I have seen their schedules. His E2E teams consistently get almost double the payroll we do and he loves to call up and let me know when his store is done with the truck.

I've asked the STL before he refuses to answer it but other ETLs at my store say our payroll is spread around the district so district makes payroll.

 

[Digi_E]

Said friend is an ETL at sister store. I have seen their schedules. His E2E teams consistently get almost double the payroll we do and he loves to call up and let me know when his store is done with the truck.

I've asked the STL before he refuses to answer it but other ETLs at my store say our payroll is spread around the district so district makes payroll.

are both your stores running the same processes? like are you the same end to end? backroom pushing and pulling the same? backroom varies alot between stores even if they are the same sales wise. our store allocates more hours than our same volume store does for backroom because we are not full end to end, the end to end areas still do not do their own pulls, and backroom pulls for both presentation and sales planners. Our sister store only has a backroom team for areas they have not done end to end, but the majority of the store does their own backroom. also we are a higher volume flex and sfs store and we pool those hours into our backroom as it works for us.

 

[Backroom81]

I haven't been with Target long but there are a lot of factors that affect payroll hours. These are probably the biggest.

• Layout of the store. They factor how long a task takes by how many steps the associate completing it has to take. Two stores with the exact same sales can have a difference of a dozen or more hours just because the coolers are very far from the dock in one store and close in the other. Then there's everything else step based.

Our layouts are similar since our most recent remodel. The only real difference is that we are a Super Target so our grocery side is much larger than theirs.

• What they sell. Two stores might have the same topline sales, but if one store contributes a significant amount more from a higher labor department, they can get a lot more hours that way. For example, $1000 extra in sales gets more hours in Starbucks than it does in Grocery.

I know this. That's why I think the "$200 for every hour of flex payroll" (I forget the exact number) is stupid. Stocking $200 of cans is far longer than a $200 game console. Also, almost 40% of our sales comes from grocery.

• If you are a showpiece store. Your district manager has a certain level of control on who gets what hours. They will choose the stores that do the most with what they have, and the stores that visitors want to see. So if you have a big store that's just been remodeled and has new stuff, execs will want to see it. The DTL will want it to run with a few more hours so that frenzy isn't as bad.

We're both showpiece stores. They are relatively new, we just got remodeled.

 

[Redzee]

About visits. Our etl said today is just another day. Do what you normally do. No panic no scramble just work and go home. Store looked fine and he got fired. Why is Target failing? A corporate culture that is not connected to store reality. It shows in nearly every edict from above. "Hotel mezzanine" Sales floor pressures. Really? Anyone over forty recognizes tactics. Oops I forgot these corporate fountains of brilliant ideas haven't walked the walk.

 

[Backroom81]

are both your stores running the same processes? like are you the same end to end? backroom pushing and pulling the same? backroom varies alot between stores even if they are the same sales wise. our store allocates more hours than our same volume store does for backroom because we are not full end to end, the end to end areas still do not do their own pulls, and backroom pulls for both presentation and sales planners. Our sister store only has a backroom team for areas they have not done end to end, but the majority of the store does their own backroom. also we are a higher volume flex and sfs store and we pool those hours into our backroom as it works for us.

I know their E2E is somewhat different which is why I look at their total payroll vs ours. Our E2E is across the board and all sales floor does their own backroom (stupidly inefficient and the metrics have tanked to reflect that). No area in our store is getting a special focus for payroll. Sales floor does their own FF and our SFS uses a dedicated team (only team that actually gets enough hours to complete their work too).

I've asked around and the most common answer from my store's ETLs is that our payroll is used to help the district meet payroll with a large portion of it going to our sister store.

 

[Bosch]

About visits. Our etl said today is just another day. Do what you normally do. No panic no scramble just work and go home. Store looked fine and he got fired. Why is Target failing? A corporate culture that is not connected to store reality. It shows in nearly every edict from above. "Hotel mezzanine" Sales floor pressures. Really? Anyone over forty recognizes tactics. Oops I forgot these corporate fountains of brilliant ideas haven't walked the walk.

Pretty much..