Archived "You don't ever tell me no."

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SuzyTarget said:
Wow, this topic sure seems to be generating a lot of heat.
It seems to me the TM’s refusal to change channels was definitely out of line and petty. It doesn’t even make any sense. I can’t think of a good reason to ever refuse to change channels, but the TL’s response to the act was wildly out of proportion. No disrespect to your opinion, Imerzan. I do agree with your general take on the matter but I don’t think the refusal rises to the level of “humiliating”. If the TM said something like, “No, I’m not going to four, you bleeping so and so” , that would be a different matter, but I think what the TM said merely qualifies as irritating and inappropriate, not humiliating. If the TL felt humiliated, I think that TL may be too thin-skinned to work in such a people-centric job. I think the TL’s response should have been to privately explain why it inappropriate and insubordinate, and then have a conversation with the TM about how to do better next time. Too many TL’s see coachings as strictly opportunities to yell at TMs for “bad” behavior and don’t ever use them as tools to help TMs (as well as the TLs themselves-- TLs should be willing to listen to and learn from TMs) do better. That approach would have avoided involving higher-ups and would have made the TM feel involved in the solution and given her a dignified opportunity to take ownership of her mistake instead of feeling like the victim of an out-of-control TL.
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"He asked if he could switch to 4 instead. She responded, "No, I need you to come to electronics, it's for guest first."

He didn't refuse to change channels, the TL needed to know if it could be handled over the walkie, the TM said no and explained why. TM's do that to me all the time, I will sometimes ask if they really need my presence or can I just answer a question on a different channel. If they say no I go to where I'm needed. This sounds like a young TL who is on a power trip and a sorry excuse for an executive team. These situations are why people don't like working at Target. I really hope the TM calls the integrity hotline and gets this sorted out.
 
Serri330 said:
The other day a coworker of mine was helping a guest sign up for a redcard. However he had a form of ID that she wasn't sure was accepted. She called for our TL to come to electronics. He asked if he could switch to 4 instead. She responded, "No, I need you to come to electronics, it's for guest first."
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So the Tm couldn't ask that over the walkie? The TM could have switched to 4 and asked, it's another case of a helpless TM who has to have their hand held.
 
"He didn't refuse to change channels, the TL needed to know if it could be handled over the walkie, the TM said no and explained why. TM's do that to me all the time, I will sometimes ask if they really need my presence or can I just answer a question on a different channel. If they say no I go to where I'm needed."

The TL was likely going to have that kind of interaction with the TM but just wanted to have it on a different channel. Channel 1 is best saved for very short interactions and the other channels are best for conversations. TMs often think their problem need to be handled in person (especially new TMs) but they are often mistaken. Even if it was truly necessary to handle the problem in person, the TL wanting a detailed heads-up on what the problem was before he got there is completely appropriate. That gives him time to think through the best solution on the way (or to brace himself to deal with an angry guest). If that is not your personal style, I think that’s fine but I still don’t think that makes it okay for the TM to flat out refuse to change channels. She couldn’t possibly know what why the TL wanted her to do that until she actually changes channels and finds out.

"This sounds like a young TL who is on a power trip and a sorry excuse for an executive team. These situations are why people don't like working at Target. I really hope the TM calls the integrity hotline and gets this sorted out."

I agree with this, particularly the part about the TL, but I chose not to comment on the response from higher-ups because the story got pretty murky at this point.
 
Formina Sage said:
Gee I almost forgot that no employees are allowed to enjoy their jobs. Furthermore, that attitude has been noted as a regrettably important part of getting ahead in the company. Welcome to real life, where bull************ting and getting lucky pay off just as often, if not more often, than honest hard work!
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I have no problem with anyone loving their job. I was mainly referring to the "better than you" attitude that most TLs and ETLs have, which GSAs try to bathe in as well.
 
I guess I should clear a few things up.

1.) There was another team member when this all occurred. He told me she never spoke with a hint of attitude or impatience.

2.) There have been several people who seem to be unsure on whether the TL told her to switch to four, or asked if he could switch to four instead of going to electronics. It was the latter, and she was just answering his own question when she said no.

3.) I realized that several people didn't understand why she was asking him to come over in the first place. One, she had already tried calling for a GSTL and got no response, and two, the guest was starting to get ornery over the wait. Also when she tried to swipe the state prison id, the register wouldn't take it, and she needed a supervisor to override.

4.) Several people are seemingly upset that she told me what happened. We're close friends and this was something she told me off the clock because she was concerned and wanted advice on how to proceed. She even told me, "I'm I only telling you this because I'm really worried, and needed some advice on what to do. But please don't tell anyone, I don't want this to become a big issue."

She ended up talking to HR and also calling the integrity hotline. Hopefully something will be done.
 
Imerzan said:
I'm sorry, but some of us try and enjoy our jobs, and maintain a positive attitude.

If you had any reading comprehension, you would see that I am a GSA, which is a TM position.
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cool story bro. Lol I could put down that I'm Ceo but that doesn't mean it's true. Ask tha steinhaffel bout that.
 
If the situation was true, the TM was not out-right defiant...only requesting the TL to come to electronics for a guest first.

If a TL can get angry over a simple 'No.' Then they should re-examine their leadership skills. The TL at most should have said...Next time communicate this way so it doesn't come over negatively. Now if the TM had a history of defiance..then the TL should raise their voice only off the floor.
 
For one, the TM was wrong, you don't say it's for the guest you need to stay on one, you do as your TL asks and move to 3 or 4, because they want to know what you need. Sometimes a TM will ask a TL to come over for something they don't really even need to be present for when they're working on an important task.

That being said, the way in which the TL, and subsequently the LOD (assuming ETL) handled the situation (you don't ever tell me no/in front of a guest/LOD making speaking to HR akin to snitching...just so you know, that's what we're there for) was very wrong. I'd either go back to your ETL-HR with that information, or your STL. If you feel uncomfortable with those options, perhaps call the integrity hotline. However with the way the TL and ETL acted in this situation, that could very well backfire...have them be careful.
 
Not to sidetrack the thread but ...
We all know that Spot tracks this site.
That's why most of us do our best to keep our real identities secret.
There are people who feel it's their responsibility to support the company and post accordingly.
That said, I seriously doubt if any of the posts you see are Spot directed.
 
Sounds like your store is as bad as mine.

That ETL shouldn't be working there. ETL-HR and the STL are the people you talk to when you have an issue with someone. Even if that TM is under your area, they still can go to the ETL-HR and talk. Saying you can't and can be coached for it is just sad.

The TL raising his voice and reprimanding a TM on the floor are big no-no's. Also, he shouldn't have talked to her about it unless a female was present. Personally i find that rule stupid, but (at least at my store) if you are a male ETL/TL and need to reprimand a female TM, you must have another female present. No exceptions.

Don't get caught up in it. Let your friend deal with it by herself. No reason for others to get in trouble >.<

EDIT: Also, your friend told you this in confidence and you decided to tell the interwebs about it?:mda:
 
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Personally i find that rule stupid, but (at least at my store) if you are a male ETL/TL and need to reprimand a female TM, you must have another female present. No exceptions.
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So if a Female TL/ETL needs to reprimand a Male TM, does another Male need to be present? Honestly.... The hypocrisy.

Basically that rule infers that Women are inferior... So much for equality.
 
sounds like an everyday occurance at my store... where the gstl will take lunch orders on channel 1 from all the tl and etls in the building and then yell at the tm's in the building when a call box goes off cause she gets cut off... O_O
 
Imerzan said:
So if a Female TL/ETL needs to reprimand a Male TM, does another Male need to be present? Honestly.... The hypocrisy.

Basically that rule infers that Women are inferior... So much for equality.
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I don't know if it's every store but at ours if an ETL is going to do a reprimand they always have another person ETL or TL in the room.
Having a witness is very handy.
And it's not just male ETL/TL to female TM, they make sure there's a male present if a female ETL has to do a reprimand.
 
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commiecorvus said:
I don't know if it's every store but at ours if an ETL is going to do a reprimand they always have another person ETL or TL in the room.
Having a witness is very handy.
And it's not just male ETL/TL to female TM, they make sure there's a male present of a female ETL has to do a reprimand.
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Okay, I guess that isn't so bad then, still a silly rule though.

We don't have that rule at our store... Honestly I think its kind of embarassing having someone else there while you are being reprimanded... Makes it much more embarassing for the TM being coached.
 
commiecorvus said:
I don't know if it's every store but at ours if an ETL is going to do a reprimand they always have another person ETL or TL in the room.
Having a witness is very handy.
And it's not just male ETL/TL to female TM, they make sure there's a male present if a female ETL has to do a reprimand.
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Isn't this to avoid any potential for an accusation of sexual harassment?
 
It's actually to prevent that and other incidents that can occur such as threats/violence and anything else you can think of.

People are weird.
 
We've had problems at our store with ETL's/TL's reprimanding TM's in non brand ways and resulted in a corporate visit. The STL, ETL's and TL's had to be there and work the floor while TM's were interviewed. It got nasty 🙁

I actually prefer a person in there with me, just because of the things i've had happen to me before (an ETL lied in front of me and ETL_HR, leading to worse things). A TM has the right to have a witness in any coaching/sit down so rather be safe than sorry!
 
Nobody was wrong. Seriously! This ************ ONLY happens at Target, where there is some weird level of dysfunction that keeps people from acting ************ing normal! Let's break it down for what it was. TM asked for help, TL didn't want to walk his ass down there and tried to settle it over radio, then got irritated that TM wouldn't. From TM perspective, she was trying to get ************ done. Simple as that. She wasn't looking for bull************, she was trying to do her ************ing job and now has to hear an earful because she didn't go over the twelve step target process for proper ************ing communication over a goddamn radio. AND YOU WONDER WHY PEOPLE HATE THIS PLACE! OH PLEASE!
 
Hmm

I think most places frown upon a tm being insubordinate to their supervisor publicly.
 
That's one possibility, here's another.
The TL was busy and didn't have time to deal with yet another clueless TM who can't take a piss or make a god damn sandwich without being given detailed instructions and holding their hand through the entire process for the 4th time (I am not saying all TM are like that but come on, you know you have them at your store also).
 
Yeah I've been getting used to our habitual help buttoners lol. Always the same clueless people heh.
 
Imerzan said:
Hmm

I think most places frown upon a tm being insubordinate to their supervisor publicly.
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Ummm, no. Most places don't blow little insignificant things out of proportion. It wasn't like she was mocking him or anything. "NO! Oh BURRRRRRRRNNNN!" Um, I think not. Only at Target do stupid things get turned into great giant ordeals. At my job currently if I told my boss "no, i need you to come here." he'd probably tell me to hold on a minute, but then he would come and deal with the issue, and that would be it. period. end of it. Because we don't have complexes about who's above or below someone. we have customers. That's the mentality i'm glad I escaped. And you'll realize it to once you move on from this place.
 
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