Archived ETL promotion possible without degree?

[greydot]

"promote up to srtl, learn all you can about being an lod--team development, scheduling, keys, security, the whole nine yards.
sign up for tuition reimbursement and go to school on target's dime (at least partly, anyway)."

This is terrible advice. The odds of a TL/SrTL actually finishing their degree is almost impossible.

99% of stores will *not* work around a TLs/SrTLs school schedule. This means that you have to go to an online "school" like University of Phoenix or Devry. These are basically considered diploma mills to most employers (because they basically are) and most employers will throw your application in the trash immediately on seeing those schools listed.

Best option if you are actually serious about going to school and graduating? Quit target (or stay a TM with target working around school schedule), sign up for financial aid, take a full course load, and hit the books. This is what 99% of successful college students do. In most states, if you do well in your classes, you will get a decent amount of grant money that you won't have to pay back after graduation.

Oh, and make sure to major in something useful. That means science, math, technology, or engineering. Otherwise you are wasting your time. And FYI - don't even THINK about trying to get one of those degrees working full time. It won't happen.

not true. our brtl, logtl, gsa, and ctl all are currently going to school. the log takes tues/thurs classes, br takes mwf classes in the afternoon, the ctl is split online/campus and is off on thursdays for her labs, and the gsa has two night classes and a sat am class in addition to her online classes. the best part SOT--the log is taking some kind of chemical engineering major (sorry-dont know much about it lol), and the ctl is a bio major hoping to pursue her masters and move down south. i also have a tm on my team that is currently enrolled for her masters degree in teaching, and i work around her observations/labs no prob. we just had another guy finish his teaching degree, leave several months to intern, and return to target while looking for a job in his field. he promoted almost immediately upon his return (they really wanna keep him). anyone can finish a degree if that is truly what they want, same as anyone can quit target if they really want to.

Ok dude, you are right. You can be an ETL and even an STL or DTL with no degree. Happens all the time. Just keep up the good work and you'll be an ETL before you know it.

SOT, normally I don't find your posts as grating as other people do - I certainly have a more sanitized and more publicly polite view of the company but in many of the same veins as you do. but come on, thats not even what dek was talking about. They were referring to the notion that you said you can't "get a degree" while working at target. not about getting the degree and getting an express ticket to ETL.

Anyway, as far as getting a degree on Target's dime I think it would depend really on your location. More remote? You might be stuck with what accredited university you can find online. however if you are in an area with local schools there really is no reason you can't go back to school and legitimately get your degree and have the team work around your schedule. more than half of our TLs are enrolled in degree programs, and its not one class a sem at the cc. full degrees at full universities. you can always transfer to another location with better access if going to school is your goal.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

Of course it's possible. I think we all know and agree that the most common ETL hire is straight out of college. Degreed TL/Sr. TL promotions would be second. Then you get into the "experienced, but may or may not be degreed" category. Like SOT said, VERY few people have any ability to sort truths from the mistruths/untruths.

I'm an STL. I have never been an ETL. I have a degree in Animal Science and I have worked in retail since I was 17.

Please be my stl...

 

[mrknownothing]

Of course it's possible. I think we all know and agree that the most common ETL hire is straight out of college. Degreed TL/Sr. TL promotions would be second. Then you get into the "experienced, but may or may not be degreed" category. Like SOT said, VERY few people have any ability to sort truths from the mistruths/untruths.

I'm an STL. I have never been an ETL. I have a degree in Animal Science and I have worked in retail since I was 17.

I honestly had no idea any of our active posters were above ETL!

Were you at Target before you became a STL or was it a lateral move from another company?

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

Of course it's possible. I think we all know and agree that the most common ETL hire is straight out of college. Degreed TL/Sr. TL promotions would be second. Then you get into the "experienced, but may or may not be degreed" category. Like SOT said, VERY few people have any ability to sort truths from the mistruths/untruths.

I'm an STL. I have never been an ETL. I have a degree in Animal Science and I have worked in retail since I was 17.

I honestly had no idea any of our active posters were above ETL!

Were you at Target before you became a STL or was it a lateral move from another company?

Three are several etl's & ex etl's on the forum. Insiteful is cool with me..

 

[insiteful1]

Of course it's possible. I think we all know and agree that the most common ETL hire is straight out of college. Degreed TL/Sr. TL promotions would be second. Then you get into the "experienced, but may or may not be degreed" category. Like SOT said, VERY few people have any ability to sort truths from the mistruths/untruths.

I'm an STL. I have never been an ETL. I have a degree in Animal Science and I have worked in retail since I was 17.

I honestly had no idea any of our active posters were above ETL!

Were you at Target before you became a STL or was it a lateral move from another company?

I'm flattered that you think I am an "active poster!"

 

[commiecorvus]

I'm flattered that you think I am an "active poster!"

At 551 posts (and counting) your contributions have been right along with your name, insightful and positive.
You're one of the good ones.

 

[mrknownothing]

I'm flattered that you think I am an "active poster!"

At 551 posts (and counting) your contributions have been right along with your name, insightful and positive.
You're one of the good ones.

I second that! The higher-ups that spy on us are lurkers - they don't post anything (except maybe Prime or whoever it was), let alone anything useful.

 

[Darikona]

I was under the impression that the college requirement was based on market conditions and locations. I know half the ETLS back in Montana still run around without college diplomas due to the Targets being in rural communities not within a reasonable distance of universities.

 

[Bucky]

Our STL has no degree and isn't working on one. Our ETL-AP has no degree. I think he is taking classes but no degree yet.

You "THINK" he is taking classes but no degree yet. How do you know he doesn't already have one degree and is taking classes for another degree or more advanced degree like a masters? Just because he is taking classes doesn't mean he doesn't already have on degree, assuming he is even taking classes because you "think" that is what he is doing.

That's the problem here - all the people saying "Oh well my STL has no degree and he is an STL!" don't really KNOW what they actually have. You are just saying what you THINK they have or are doing.

Many people don't like bragging to people about having a degree. (FYI - going around telling or bragging to people you have a degree is not normal behavior, and many people could consider it rude) Some people simply don't think it is others business what level of education they have and will deny having a degree to avoid talking about it. I once worked with a TL who straight up told me once he didn't have any education beyond high school. About a few months after he got hired, he turned in his two weeks because he got a job as a professor at a university. Turned out he actually had a PhD. (the highest degree a person can get) When I asked him why he told me he didn't have anything beyond high school, he told me he couldn't risk people finding out because he had lied on his employment application about his education because he hadn't been able to get a job because employers were telling him he was overqualified. The fact is, unless you have direct access to a persons educational records you really don't know what they have.

But you know what guys? Go ahead and work really really really really hard so you can move up to ETL, because just like your ETL told you - all you need is hard work to become an ETL. Sure you can be an ETL with no degree. Or like you say buckwill, you can even be an STL with no degree! All you need is hard work. 10 years from now, when you are still busting your ass for that direct TM to STL promotion that you have coming because of your hard work, I'm sure your ETLs will tell you that the problem is that you haven't worked quite hard enough..... and that if you work just a litttllleee bit harder that STL promotion is going to be yours, in fact they may even tell you that you are working so hard all you need is a little more effort and in maybe 1 more year you'll move up to DTL!

(I am absolutely amazed how well carrot and stick management works..... whoever came up with this is probably a very rich person....)

I should have been clearer with my statement. I know, because she told me so herself, that my STL has no degree. We were working on something together last autumn, and the subject of what we did before working at Target came up. As for our ETL-AP, what I stated about him was second hand from our TPS. He said that the ETL was still working on his degree. The TPS did not specifically state whether or not the ETL already had one or not. I will ask the ETL Monday.

Of course, both of them could be liars too. I think your example was an aberration. I can see why this specific person lied. But, the average person has no reason to lie when asked about this. For example, why would my STL lie about NOT having one?

I have a degree and work as the signing team member. If someone asked me, I can't imagine flat out lying about it. If pressed and I didn't want a piece of information known, I might say ... "If that was any of your business, you would already know." Said with a smile.

 

[StateofTarget]

"I should have been clearer with my statement. I know, because she told me so herself, that my STL has no degree. We were working on something together last autumn, and the subject of what we did before working at Target came up. As for our ETL-AP, what I stated about him was second hand from our TPS. He said that the ETL was still working on his degree. The TPS did not specifically state whether or not the ETL already had one or not. I will ask the ETL Monday. "

This is the problem.... WAY too many people on this forum are getting their information from random people. "Well, such and such told me that our STL has no degree!" This is a *highly* unreliable way to get information.... especially information that is personal. This is called hearsay - and it is considered so unreliable you can't even use it in court.

"If pressed and I didn't want a piece of information known, I might say ... "If that was any of your business, you would already know." Said with a smile."

Ok, so you are willing to smart mouth someone at work and make an enemy. Great. Good for you. Lots of other people aren't willing to do that, and would best avoid the issue. The easiest way to do that instantly without upsetting anyone is to simply deny it. That little pre-school game of "None of your business haha!" might sound cute, but it also annoys people.

For example, when I was an electronics TL I sometimes knew when an electronics TM had been termed for theft. (Either I was helping AP in some way, was the one who informed AP, or knew some other way) Guess what I said 100% of the time if a TM asked me why someone suddenly wasn't working at our store anymore? "I don't know. No idea"

You know why? Because I couldn't talk about it. If you say pretty much anything else "Oh I know, but can't tell you" or "None of your business". You have people who are either 1. Going to pester you once they find out you know or 2. Going to be personally annoyed with you because you told them no. Simply denying it gets them to drop it immediately and also doesn't hurt any feelings.

And you know what? It actually pissed me off when TMs asked me why someone wasn't working at our store anymore.... because they should know that it's none of their business.... This is the same way some people feel when you ask them about their educational history.

The fact is, there are plenty of people who don't consider their educational history anyones business. Just like plenty of people don't consider their medical information anyones business. That's why there are laws that make it highly illegal to disclose educational records without approval. That's why there are laws that make it highly illegal to disclose medical records without approval.

Just because you don't see a big deal talking about it doesn't mean that everyone else feels the same way. I have an Associate's degree. Guess how many people in my store know? Zero. Why? For one thing, many of the people in my store have a high school education/GED or not even that. I don't feel the need to rub it in their faces. Second reason, I really don't want anyone to know anything personal about me at work. If anyone ever asks me at work, I will probably tell them my education isn't anything worth talking about and change the subject. I can pretty much guarantee you that I am not the only one who feels that way.

And another reason I wouldn't tell them? For the same reason I wouldn't tell a TM why someone was termed if I knew.... because the whole store will know. This is the another reason why people decide not to disclose personal things at work even to a work-friend.... because pretty soon everyone else will know. And guess what? That's exactly what happened in this case. Your STL probably denied having a degree to someone, and look what happened? That person is going around telling people things about your STLs personal history that are probably really no ones business.

 

[Retail Girl]

I find it incredibly odd that people would deny their educational history or change the subject and refuse to talk about it. Of course, most people don't care, but it comes up in random conversation at times. And there's a difference between it coming up in random conversations and rubbing it in someone's face. It isn't like it's top secret like medical history or their wages or something...it's a degree that they and millions of other people have. Seriously, anyone with money can get a bachelor's and even a master's. Believe me. And I know people who swear up and down that if they can get a doctorate, anyone can. These degrees seriously aren't that big of a deal like it needs to be some secret (save for hiding it because they had to downplay their education to get the job...which I'm afraid I may end up doing some day).

 

[StateofTarget]

I find it incredibly odd that people would deny their educational history or change the subject and refuse to talk about it. Of course, most people don't care, but it comes up in random conversation at times. And there's a difference between it coming up in random conversations and rubbing it in someone's face. It isn't like it's top secret like medical history or their wages or something...it's a degree that they and millions of other people have. Seriously, anyone with money can get a bachelor's and even a master's. Believe me. And I know people who swear up and down that if they can get a doctorate, anyone can. These degrees seriously aren't that big of a deal like it needs to be some secret (save for hiding it because they had to downplay their education to get the job...which I'm afraid I may end up doing some day).

Lol.... Here's an idea.... Go over to your local college and ask for someone else's school records. See what happens.

Or better yet, sneak into the records office and just start looking through everything. See what happens when you're caught. You can actually do jail time for looking at someones school records without consent. Yes, it is that big of a deal. And yes, there are tons of people in the world who would go ape sh** crazy if someone saw their school records.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

Sot, your concern about your upper mgt about having no degree is ok. Focus on your job for now, not theirs. You have an associates degree, seek other job opps since you don't agree with spot.

 

[kingpin003]

I find it incredibly odd that people would deny their educational history or change the subject and refuse to talk about it. Of course, most people don't care, but it comes up in random conversation at times. And there's a difference between it coming up in random conversations and rubbing it in someone's face. It isn't like it's top secret like medical history or their wages or something...it's a degree that they and millions of other people have. Seriously, anyone with money can get a bachelor's and even a master's. Believe me. And I know people who swear up and down that if they can get a doctorate, anyone can. These degrees seriously aren't that big of a deal like it needs to be some secret (save for hiding it because they had to downplay their education to get the job...which I'm afraid I may end up doing some day).

Lol.... Here's an idea.... Go over to your local college and ask for someone else's school records. See what happens.

Or better yet, sneak into the records office and just start looking through everything. See what happens when you're caught. You can actually do jail time for looking at someones school records without consent. Yes, it is that big of a deal. And yes, there are tons of people in the world who would go ape sh** crazy if someone saw their school records.

There's a big difference between admitting you have a Diploma during conversation and trespassing to steal that information.

 

[Retail Girl]

I find it incredibly odd that people would deny their educational history or change the subject and refuse to talk about it. Of course, most people don't care, but it comes up in random conversation at times. And there's a difference between it coming up in random conversations and rubbing it in someone's face. It isn't like it's top secret like medical history or their wages or something...it's a degree that they and millions of other people have. Seriously, anyone with money can get a bachelor's and even a master's. Believe me. And I know people who swear up and down that if they can get a doctorate, anyone can. These degrees seriously aren't that big of a deal like it needs to be some secret (save for hiding it because they had to downplay their education to get the job...which I'm afraid I may end up doing some day).

Lol.... Here's an idea.... Go over to your local college and ask for someone else's school records. See what happens.

Or better yet, sneak into the records office and just start looking through everything. See what happens when you're caught. You can actually do jail time for looking at someones school records without consent. Yes, it is that big of a deal. And yes, there are tons of people in the world who would go ape sh** crazy if someone saw their school records.

I'm not talking about people's grades. Those are private. But if someone got a degree or not? Seriously? Who in the world cares if someone got a degree or not? Mentioning one has a degree does not constitute rubbing it in someone's face. Of course then again, it rarely comes up in conversation...and when it does, it's not something really worth hiding.

By the way, you do realize that most colleges release graduation information (as well as semester honors) to newspapers for press releases without any sort of consent needed from the student. None of that is private.

 

[StateofTarget]

Sot, your concern about your upper mgt about having no degree is ok. Focus on your job for now, not theirs. You have an associates degree, seek other job opps since you don't agree with spot.

I wish I could.... but an associate's degree is basically worthless.

 

[nof]

Sot, your concern about your upper mgt about having no degree is ok. Focus on your job for now, not theirs. You have an associates degree, seek other job opps since you don't agree with spot.

I wish I could.... but an associate's degree is basically worthless.

Remove the negativity from your life, and use your experience and knowledge to find a different job. You obviously dont enjoy working for spot. There are plenty of other companies that would hire you based off of experience and a solid interview...

 

[Retail Girl]

Sot, your concern about your upper mgt about having no degree is ok. Focus on your job for now, not theirs. You have an associates degree, seek other job opps since you don't agree with spot.

I wish I could.... but an associate's degree is basically worthless.

Remove the negativity from your life, and use your experience and knowledge to find a different job. You obviously dont enjoy working for spot. There are plenty of other companies that would hire you based off of experience and a solid interview...

He had another job...until he punched a Best Buy employee in the face. His employer sort of frowned on that.

 

[insiteful1]

Sot, your concern about your upper mgt about having no degree is ok. Focus on your job for now, not theirs. You have an associates degree, seek other job opps since you don't agree with spot.

I wish I could.... but an associate's degree is basically worthless.

Remove the negativity from your life, and use your experience and knowledge to find a different job. You obviously dont enjoy working for spot. There are plenty of other companies that would hire you based off of experience and a solid interview...

He had another job...until he punched a Best Buy employee in the face. His employer sort of frowned on that.

LOL. SOT, I love you man, but this is hilarious.

 

[nib]

People shouldn't have to change who they are, it's too bad people in here aren't smart enough to Unionize and therefore make their employer change!

Sot, your concern about your upper mgt about having no degree is ok. Focus on your job for now, not theirs. You have an associates degree, seek other job opps since you don't agree with spot.

I wish I could.... but an associate's degree is basically worthless.

Remove the negativity from your life, and use your experience and knowledge to find a different job. You obviously dont enjoy working for spot. There are plenty of other companies that would hire you based off of experience and a solid interview...

He had another job...until he punched a Best Buy employee in the face. His employer sort of frowned on that.

LOL. SOT, I love you man, but this is hilarious.

 

[Mhugh220]

I recently was promoted to Flow TL in Nov and was wondering what my career possibilities are after that. I have read multiple articles that state all ETLs require a 4 year degree which I do not have. My replen ETL says that you can get promoted to ETL if the DTL and STL really want you. I have the work experience (10 years with best buy SM, 8 years trader joes Captain(SM for those who do not know), and have a franchise under my belt (operated by wife). My question is it possible? My heart in is retail and enjoy working with people but if there is not opportunity for me to advance then I should look elsewhere (can go back to trader as 1st mate). I also would like to mention in the 6 months I have worked for target we have had 2 ETLs straight out of college with no work experience drive the hardlines and softlines into the ground. Education will never and has never trumped experience with anyone I have hired yet.

From my experience with Target the answer to your question is YES!! You can be promoted to ETL without a degree. A degree was not an original requirement, then they made it a requirement and worked ETLs out, now they went back to internal recruitment without a degree requirement. External recruits require a 4-year degree minimum. When I went through Business College, only one of us did not have an MBA. I know an ETL-Replenishment, 2 ETL-Hardlines, and an ETL-GE in my district that were promoted to ETL without a degree. We also have two Sr.TL (no degree) that just passed their ETL interviews.

Your progression can be like this without a degree - Flow TL -> Sr. TL -> ETL. How long will it take? It will take less time to get a degree than it will to become an ETL. Each of the ETLs I personally know have spent 6+ years with Target before getting the ETL position. Each promotion will most likely have a minimum time-in-position of 18 months. As a Flow TL I would recommend the following: Come clean every night, manage talent, walk the vibe, and recognize top performers. They must see the leadership potential of an ETL in you to get promoted. Partner with your ETL-Replen and ETL-Logistics. Review reports, understand RWT, predict how your truck unload will be (Transition cartons, Security Items, PIPOs,etc) and own your team. Look at staffing, help with the schedule, and recommend strategies to make the process more efficient. It may be a longer path, and regardless of if you get a degree you may still have to fulfill the 18-month requirement in each position, unless your store really wants/needs you to move up. Target does not care about your past experience with another company when promoting, they look at your performance with Target and what you can do for them. If you focus more on being a leader you will do fine.

Being promoted to ETL in my Group/District without a degree is very common. It may not be common in other areas. And it's sad to say, but your promotion depends on how well your supervision recognizes your efforts. If they don't put you in a positive spotlight and help move you forward, unfortunately you will not go far. I came to a store with a Sr. Flow TL, with great ETL potential, but transferred to another store without getting the recognition deserved. If the Sr.TL would have stayed, I would have moved them up to an ETL. And to put things into perspective, I have TMs who want to go further with Target, have a degree, but are not on the radar for any type of promotion.

 

[LogisticsTL13]

The degree rule changed, you used to need it but you do not need it now, nor do you need to show you are getting one now. It used to be degree or good luck(a few exceptions) but now its possible for all to move up, granted its still really hard to move up for a TL to exec, usually they have you go to SR TL and then see how you do after that(18 months at least) then you can see where you stand and if you want to move up.

 

[CIHYVS]

I'm flattered that you think I am an "active poster!"

At 551 posts (and counting) your contributions have been right along with your name, insightful and positive.
You're one of the good ones.

I second that! The higher-ups that spy on us are lurkers - they don't post anything (except maybe Prime or whoever it was), let alone anything useful.

Is there any evidence that High Command knows/participates in thebreakroom.com? Just curious on how we would know?

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

I'm flattered that you think I am an "active poster!"

At 551 posts (and counting) your contributions have been right along with your name, insightful and positive.
You're one of the good ones.

I second that! The higher-ups that spy on us are lurkers - they don't post anything (except maybe Prime or whoever it was), let alone anything useful.

Is there any evidence that High Command knows/participates in thebreakroom.com? Just curious on how we would know?

They do know. Start reading certain training guides, it looks like postings here. They are here, watching us.
We did hear about the layoffs in corp hq, 2 years ago. The op gave us, details on how they did it. Basically, a big meeting, & told them to clean out their desks today. Very sad event.

 

[StateofTarget]

The degree rule changed, you used to need it but you do not need it now, nor do you need to show you are getting one now. It used to be degree or good luck(a few exceptions) but now its possible for all to move up, granted its still really hard to move up for a TL to exec, usually they have you go to SR TL and then see how you do after that(18 months at least) then you can see where you stand and if you want to move up.

Then why do core roles/online ETL job postings say it is required?