Archived late to orientation - rejected

[Tyler Harris]

I thought orientation was only 3 hours?

Was I misinformed and it is really 4 hours?

 

[HRLady]

I thought orientation was only 3 hours?

Was I misinformed and it is really 4 hours?

It varies, depending on things like the size of the group, people asking tons of questions, tech issues with the video, etc.

 

[HRZone]

It's very difficult to get rid of someone once they're past their 90 days. If someone shows up late to orientation, there is a decent chance that this is a sign of bad things to come. The STL has a choice - keep the person and risk spending a bunch of payroll on someone who we're likely to get rid of within the next 90 days, or just cut ties now. Again, I'll say that the misunderstanding sucks and probably warrants a second chance, although I'd have to have actually listened to the conversation myself to really decide. From the STL's perspective, it's best to just get rid of them now.

Yeah, to be honest it's hard to hold someone's hand in this business...

Its just that , they were told the orientation is between 12 and 4.
Orientation!
Not like a music festival. With several acts.
They misunderstood that, both of them.
They should’ve asked for clarification.
How old are these kids anyway?

Yup we had someone not bring his id to orientation. Called and emailed him with a reminder, I sent him home and he lost his job opportunity. I'm all for compassion but people also have to take responsibility.

ADA is legit but even that is abused. We had a team member no call no show 3 times for a job abandon. She tried to bring in an ADA form after she had already been terminated. I would have loved to have helper her if she let us know ahead of time.

At the end of the day we have a business to run

 

[HRZone]

They show up late during their 90 days...chuck 'em

I wish it was that simple. It's a lot of work hiring a seasonal, doing an orientation, using previous training hours just for them to flame out. At my old store less than half the seasonals made it to January.

Sometimes you have to cut your losses quick, as brutal as that sounds

I thought orientation was only 3 hours?

Was I misinformed and it is really 4 hours?

Asants, some have been done in two hours depends on how thorough the facilitator is. My old store did training on orientation day. So it was a legit 6 to 8 hour day

 

[HRLady]

Yup we had someone not bring his id to orientation. Called and emailed him with a reminder, I sent him home and he lost his job opportunity.

We had a team member no call no show 3 times for a job abandon. She tried to bring in an ADA form after she had already been terminated. I would have loved to have helper her if she let us know ahead of time.

Yeah, no sympathies for the first guy. If you reminded him to bring documents twice and he didn't bring it, then that's on him.

She waited until after 3 NCNS and her term to notify you guys about why she she missed work. She had at least 3 shifts (3+ days, depending on her schedule) to reach out so that's mostly on her too. What she did is still better than what someone did at my store though. At my store, someone JA'ed while never once letting us know anything about needing accommodations. It wasn't until we received a claim that we found out anything. We would have accommodated her if she told us during her employment. Instead, she was trying to make us look like bad guys who refused to work with her needs.

I wish it was that simple. It's a lot of work hiring a seasonal, doing an orientation, using previous training hours just for them to flame out. At my old store less than half the seasonals made it to January.

Sometimes you have to cut your losses quick, as brutal as that sounds

I definitely understand what you mean in terms of saving the time+money that would be wasted to on-board and train a TM who doesn't last long-term. However, in this situation, it is kind of tricky since it deals with applicants who revealed that they have a disability. Hypothetically, what if OP decided to pursue and reported her store HR for discriminating against her kids? HRZone, I am honestly curious about this because I have never turned someone away from orientation for this reason. I probably wouldn't, considering it relates to ADA. My store usually gives someone one more chance if they made the effort to notify us with a reasonable reason within a certain time frame. Obviously though, if they didn't bother contacting my team until orientation was almost over or just told us that they overslept, then goodbye.

 

[Kompa]

Common sense would dictate that obviously orientations weren't running at all times in those hours. They should of showed up at 12

 

[CTLGR8]

Common sense would dictate that obviously orientations weren't running at all times in those hours. They should of showed up at 12

Should of? What does should of means?
Did you mean “should have”?

 

[Fluttervale]

The 25 year old is old enough to know that she should clarify.

Were it me, I would have given the teen a second chance (because teens lack such experience) and warn him that if it happens again he is gone. The 25 year old would be done, but because they are siblings I'd have given her a second chance too. But not a third.

And when you say it wouldn't hurt anything to give them a second chance, that isn't true. The company probably spends about $1000 on each new hire from application through two weeks. So if they are let go for attendance in week 3, that's a big expense for the store. It's cheaper to cut bait.

 

[Kompa]

Should of? What does should of means?
Did you mean “should have”?

Is that what you really took from that comment?

 

[LUR99]

Yeah, to be honest it's hard to hold someone's hand in this business...



Yup we had someone not bring his id to orientation. Called and emailed him with a reminder, I sent him home and he lost his job opportunity. I'm all for compassion but people also have to take responsibility.

ADA is legit but even that is abused. We had a team member no call no show 3 times for a job abandon. She tried to bring in an ADA form after she had already been terminated. I would have loved to have helper her if she let us know ahead of time.

At the end of the day we have a business to run

I can't tell you how many times people show up without their required documents or expired documents! I tell them during the job offer, I write a comment in the orientation email and I remind them one more time when I call them the day before the Orientation! That is 3 reminders and they still forget or they say I know I was supposed to bring it but I actually lost it during a move a few months ago etc! I even tell them during the job offer that they can not attend orientation if they forget their documents or bring expired documents so I don't get it.

 

[HRZone]

HRZone, I am honestly curious about this because I have never turned someone away from orientation for this reason. I probably wouldn't, considering it relates to ADA

My thing is was the disability made known to HR ahead of time? I can help that.

Unfortunately I have heard too many people not let us know about "disability" until it gets them in trouble.

 

[OverworkedHRTM]

I can't tell you how many times people show up without their required documents or expired documents! I tell them during the job offer, I write a comment in the orientation email and I remind them one more time when I call them the day before the Orientation! That is 3 reminders and they still forget or they say I know I was supposed to bring it but I actually lost it during a move a few months ago etc! I even tell them during the job offer that they can not attend orientation if they forget their documents or bring expired documents so I don't get it.

Same here! I swear every orientation I have at least one person forgot their ID and then get upset with me when I tell them they can’t start. Smh. And I tell them 3 times they have to have the correct IDs from the list or they can’t start. If you can’t follow simple directions like that then I have no time for you.

 

[HRZone]

When I went in for my orientation, I was given paperwork to sign and given a quick, simple tour. It was less than 30 minutes altogether, and would have been even shorter had the other person not shown up 15 minutes late.

Whoever your facilitator is screwed up. You are required to show the videos which themselves take longer than half an hour. I know some people choose not to do this but it's a disservice when team members are fired because a policy wasn't explained to them.

The only people who can be given a short orientation are CSPs and JIT team members.

 

[CTLGR8]

Is that what you really took from that comment?

Just want to know what it means and why it was used. Thank You.

 

[Kompa]

Just want to know what it means and why it was used. Thank You.

It's another way of saying "should have".

Irl a lot of people say "shoulda" which sounds like "should of" so people tend to type it that way when speaking casually

 

[CTLGR8]

It's another way of saying "should have".

Irl a lot of people say "shoulda" which sounds like "should of" so people tend to type it that way when speaking casually

So, here’s the thing. Its not another way of saying “should have”.”should of”actually means nothing.” Shoulda” I am ok with. Like it can be slang. A short way of saying/typing “ should’ve”. But, to actually type “should of”. Like you are typing “should” hitting the space bar and then typing “of” . “Should of”.
Thats not a different way if saying “should have”. Thats just wrong.... in so,so many ways.

Note:- none of this was intended to offend you. If i did offend you, i am sorry.

 

[signingminion]

My thing is was the disability made known to HR ahead of time? I can help that.

Unfortunately I have heard too many people not let us know about "disability" until it gets them in trouble.

I've got one like this. Pretty sure she's just sitting on the paperwork until they corrective action her entitled lazy behind... I hope they get around it.

 

[HRLady]

My thing is was the disability made known to HR ahead of time? I can help that.

Unfortunately I have heard too many people not let us know about "disability" until it gets them in trouble.

Thanks for the reply! Believe me, I get what you mean about people not notifying HR ahead of time.

I felt kind of bad for OP's kids though. When reading about OP's situation, I was wondering if people who didn't disclose ahead of time before getting in trouble are still protected under ADA. I just looked into those gov websites to find the legal language of what you said in your reply. I was able to find something along the lines of: as long as employers were unaware of the disability at the time of the write-up or firing, then it does not count as discrimination (note: this is only a paraphrase of what I found). I guess there really is nothing they can do in this particular situation.

 

[60SecondsRemaining]

At the risk of sounding like a huge asshole here, I'm going to come out and say a few things.

Assuming there's no huge disability here (they mentally capable, just a processing thing), and full disclosure, I only read the first two pages, the store made the right call.

At 17 and 25 they are not children, they're adults. As adults they should understand the need to ask for clarification when exact details are not specified. As adults they should be able to call the store, speak to someone, and clear this up on their own. Doing all of them for them isn't helping them at all. They're going to encounter things like this their entire lives, they need to learn how to deal with situations on their own.

Again, if there is a severe disability or something I missed, then it's irrelevant. But at 17, and certainly at 25, your parents should not be trying to resolve this situation for you.

Also, you seem very well spoken and level headed, so it may be that I'm misunderstanding the situation.

 

[Tessa120]

At the risk of sounding like a huge asshole here, I'm going to come out and say a few things.

Assuming there's no huge disability here (they mentally capable, just a processing thing), and full disclosure, I only read the first two pages, the store made the right call.

At 17 and 25 they are not children, they're adults. As adults they should understand the need to ask for clarification when exact details are not specified. As adults they should be able to call the store, speak to someone, and clear this up on their own. Doing all of them for them isn't helping them at all. They're going to encounter things like this their entire lives, they need to learn how to deal with situations on their own.

Again, if there is a severe disability or something I missed, then it's irrelevant. But at 17, and certainly at 25, your parents should not be trying to resolve this situation for you.

Also, you seem very well spoken and level headed, so it may be that I'm misunderstanding the situation.

There easily could be more to the story. I don't always reveal all of my daughter's issues, just whatever is relevant to the discussion at hand.

 

[SoCalMama]

OK. Let me weigh in on this.

I work(ed) at the store. My kids both worked at the store. Do you not talk to them? I knew when both of my kids had orientation. Did they not say, "Mom. My orientation is on Monday anytime I want to drop in from 12 to 4,"? That would have had me asking questions. I basically had to go an and fast-track their interviews. They are both outstanding team members. As their mom, I got them on the right track, filled them in on how all the BS works and then set them free. OK, once I got all mama-bear on the LOD for not responding to a call for back-up at Starbucks, but he deserved it.

Yet, they are so quick to hire complete losers. It blows my mind.

The 17 year old should know better than to listen to his sister if she has some sort of disability or issues. This can't be the first time. I feel for him. And I don't agree that a 17 year old is an adult, especially if it's his first job.

 

[Kompa]

So, here’s the thing. Its not another way of saying “should have”.”should of”actually means nothing.” Shoulda” I am ok with. Like it can be slang. A short way of saying/typing “ should’ve”. But, to actually type “should of”. Like you are typing “should” hitting the space bar and then typing “of” . “Should of”.
Thats not a different way if saying “should have”. Thats just wrong.... in so,so many ways.

Note:- none of this was intended to offend you. If i did offend you, i am sorry.

So instead of taking my answer, like you asked for, you instead try to turn it into a grammar lesson for something that has no meaning? You know what else is commonly used in modern English? "Ain't" You try to correct everyone on the use of they too? Should of has been used since around 1820 so your lesson falls on deaf ears. Everyone knows the difference. Not everyone cares

 

[CTLGR8]

So instead of taking my answer, like you asked for, you instead try to turn it into a grammar lesson for something that has no meaning? You know what else is commonly used in modern English? "Ain't" You try to correct everyone on the use of they too? Should of has been used since around 1820 so your lesson falls on deaf ears. Everyone knows the difference. Not everyone cares

🙂 Ok buddy, just cause its been used since 1820, does not make it right or correct. My point went over your head. So I’ll put it in simple terms. To say that should of and should have are the same is stupid. It’s incorrect. You are trying to justify something that is false. Instead of just saying “ oh haha, I meant “should have”, you went and did a google search to justify your use of a meaningless phrase. Just admit to the mistake you made , we all make mistakes.I hope this was not only just a lesson in the correct use of “should have” but also a lesson in accepting your short comings and owning up to them.
Have a blessed day now.

 

[60SecondsRemaining]

So, here’s the thing. Its not another way of saying “should have”.”should of”actually means nothing.” Shoulda” I am ok with. Like it can be slang. A short way of saying/typing “ should’ve”. But, to actually type “should of”. Like you are typing “should” hitting the space bar and then typing “of” . “Should of”.
Thats not a different way if saying “should have”. Thats just wrong.... in so,so many ways.

Note:- none of this was intended to offend you. If i did offend you, i am sorry.

I don't quite understand. Why would they think they need to ask for clarification if they thought that the hours given were a window and not a duration? It seems like they weren't confused by what was said, they just interpreted it "wrong" -- and I put that in quotes because I believe the burden should be on the HRTM/TL to make sure they're giving statements that can't be misinterpreted in such a way.

Many times I've had appointments for things and been told to come in "between X and Y", and each and every time that's meant I can literally come in between X and Y -- not that I should come in at X and leave at Y. So it's entirely reasonable for the two to have believed that to be the case here.

First, I assume the rest of the orientation group made it at 12. Most people understood. If wording was the root cause, this would most likely not be the first time, and the store would probably be a little more forgiving. That wasn't the case.

Second, op stated there is a processing order. It was also stated that they got the jobs on their own. So we can assume the kids aren't stupid. If you have a processing disorder, and everyone else followed the directions correctly, isn't it more likely that the directions were misuunderstood?

At 17/25 years old, they should understand how to deal with situations like this. If verbal direction is a problem, ask for an email or confirm instructions. While people can and should be understanding of situations like this, there's no guarantee they will be, especially if it wasn't listed on the application.

It's far more effective to use this situation as a learning opportunity to teach them how to avoid things like this in the future on their own, because the only person who can really look out for you is yourself.

 

[HRZone]

It's far more effective to use this situation as a learning opportunity to teach them how to avoid things like this in the future on their own, because the only person who can really look out for you is yourself.