Archived Prospective ETL, questions about religious accommodations and grooming.

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bikebryan said:
I've been internally debating about a reply to this. I say: tread carefully.

Yes, it sounds very tempting to go after a big company on the grounds you are stating. However, what proof do you have that this was said to you? Did you record said conversation? If you did, it is highly unlikely that a court would allow it to admitted as evidence in any court proceedings, meaning it would be your word against theirs. They also likely can afford to hire MUCH better lawyers.

Does it suck? YES. However, as a former ETL, I would be PISSED if one of my coworkers had this arrangement. Right now I spend most of my Sunday mornings, and many times Saturday nights, involved in my church. So, for religious reasons, I want all that time off. Oh, and I have vestry meetings once a month, as well as executive committee meetings and youth group time. I want all that off for religious reasons. Yes, this is taking it to extremes, but the point is: where do you draw the line?

The bottom line is that they expect open availability - and you don't provide that.
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Clearly the line is drawn between reasonable accommodation for worship and between volunteering for all of those other things. And I am fairly certain the line would be drawn between worshiping once a week and insisting you need to worship every time the doors are open. The courts draw the line all the time when deciding these cases based on our rights. And it is a right...no matter what religion.
 
I think, starting the interview with - I need a chuck of hours off on Friday - was putting negativity in the recruiter's head. I may have gotten through the first interview and saved that accommodation for a face to face by saying - It would be alright if I needed a few hours each week for religious obligations wouldn't it? I know whenever I have gone on interviews, I wait until I am hired and then say, oh it's not a problem that I have a vacation planned on..... For you, you would want to say, oh, there's no problem that I have religious obligations on certain hours on Friday is it? At that point they might be a bit more accepting. They might think, gee this guy seems really good, maybe we will give him a chance, we can work around his days..

In this thread I think you wrote that you would get paperwork from the Mosque and in another thread you wrote that you would get letters of recommendation from the administrators at the school you work. Target doesn't really care about paperwork at all - ever. It's almost as if when you hand them paperwork they look at it and think to themselves what do I do with this?

If you want a retail job, there are many other places for you to look. I wish you much luck but if it were me, I would try to steer away from retail, they seem to be less caring about family.
 
Maybe someone else can chime in if they know more but I think Target pays higher than other stores for retail management. I know Dick's Sporting goods has a similar structure and possible pay range, as well as Home Depot and Lowes. They tend to provide $40-$55K for entry level management positions. They are (were) big on promoting from within for management rather than external hires. Other retailers don't pay as well for management unless you get to the store or district level. For example, an ETL I was in BC with was the ex-store manager of one of the most profitable PetSmarts in the east coast and his salary at Target as an ETL was higher.
 
Man, so many opinions flying around in this thread. I used to work for an employment attorney and, trust me, if you wanted to, you have a strong case, especially with the recruiter leaving the voice mail. The thing is it would be against the recruiter and whatever agency he or she represents. Target can turn around and say they never told the recruiter to leave that message for you but you still were discriminated against due to religion.

Also wanted to add if you were to force them to interview you and you were hired and then you were retaliated against, that's another suit waiting to happen. You can always go to your local EEOC and speak to someone there. In my experience (and I have years' worth), most companies settle, especially if you have hard proof.

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/religion.cfm - religious discrimination page
http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/retaliation.cfm - retaliation page

If you personally feel it's not worth it, I understand, but they (Target or the recruiter, whoever the response came from) really shouldn't be allowed to get away with something like this. Good luck!
 
ETLfonhom said:
What's the point of calling the recruiter back?

If I do anything, I'm either going to contact corporate or file a claim with the EEOC.
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You have a limited amount of proof. Spot has a well paid legal team. Heresay & no real documentation will work against you. It sounds like you have done only a 1 phone interview, so far.
Also, this thread is becoming a spot hr event too.
 
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Hardlinesmaster said:
You have a limited amount of proof. Spot has a well paid legal team. Heresay & no real documentation will work against you. It sounds like you have done only a 1 phone interview, so far.
Also, this thread is becoming a spot hr event too.
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The point is, I wasn't even given one complete interview.

I don't mind if people from Target HR see this, in fact I hope they do. I'm just telling my story and asking for thoughts and advice... There's no hearsay going on... There's plenty of evidence to substantiate my statements.

If I do file a claim, I won't be digging for a settlement, I'll be trying to make sure that this never happens to anyone else. I shouldn't have to feel like I am unworthy of a position that I know I am well qualified for... simply due to my religious identity.

I believe that the stated reason that Target has ended all further interviews with me is in direct and obvious violation of the Civil Rights Act.
 
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Retail Girl said:
Clearly the line is drawn between reasonable accommodation for worship and between volunteering for all of those other things. And I am fairly certain the line would be drawn between worshiping once a week and insisting you need to worship every time the doors are open. The courts draw the line all the time when deciding these cases based on our rights. And it is a right...no matter what religion.
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The part of the 1st amendment you are referencing reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Nowhere does this say that an employer MUST give you time off of what they consider your "regular" schedule to practice your religion. This was written when if you tried to practice a religion outside the "official" religion, you could be persecuted and/or killed. That was the intent of that amendment. Not to stop prayer in schools. Not to give people time off to practice said religion.

I swear, if the founders saw the mockery we have made of a lot of the Constitution, they would probably want to leave the country.
 
bikebryan said:
The part of the 1st amendment you are referencing reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Nowhere does this say that an employer MUST give you time off of what they consider your "regular" schedule to practice your religion. This was written when if you tried to practice a religion outside the "official" religion, you could be persecuted and/or killed. That was the intent of that amendment. Not to stop prayer in schools. Not to give people time off to practice said religion.

I swear, if the founders saw the mockery we have made of a lot of the Constitution, they would probably want to leave the country.
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Umm, no. I was not referring at all to the first amendment.

I was, in fact, referring to Title IIV of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Since it was posted on the second page of this thread, I won't repost it.
 
The recruiter should have done the full interview but as far as you saying you are qualified for the job isn't an automatic in for the position.
It seems like this thread is getting blow. Way out of proportion.
If you feel you still are entitled to an interview call back the recruiter and say you would like a face to face interview because you feel they cut it short because of your religion.
An interview is not a job. So if you are granted the interview and then don't get the job will you still think it's because of your religion?
 
PinkZinnia said:
So if you are granted the interview and then don't get the job will you still think it's because of your religion?
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It's a moot point because the recruiter as much as said the interview was done & they would NOT make an accommodation for his religion.
At this point, he has nothing to lose by at least filing a complaint to ensure this doesn't happen to someone else.
While I'm not devout in my faith, I would gladly work for a TM who is - regardless of faith.
 
I am amazed the recruiter didn't finish the interview and use some variation of "This position has already been filled" or "We don't think you're what we're looking for". Bluntly stating "we can't accamodate your religious needs of 4 hours a week" is begging for a lawsuit.
 
A recording and story going viral might make more of an impact. Target has a top notch legal team and this is something that can be brushed under the rug easily for them.

What I imagine Target saying though is that if you put you were open on your application and that it suddenly changed during the interview, they can just say you lied on your application and decided to not pursue the process after learning the truth.
 
ETLfonhom said:
The point is, I wasn't even given one complete interview.
I don't mind if people from Target HR see this, in fact I hope they do. I'm just telling my story and asking for thoughts and advice... There's no hearsay going on... There's plenty of evidence to substantiate my statements.
If I do file a claim, I won't be digging for a settlement, I'll be trying to make sure that this never happens to anyone else. I shouldn't have to feel like I am unworthy of a position that I know I am well qualified for... simply due to my religious identity.
I believe that the stated reason that Target has ended all further interviews with me is in direct and obvious violation of the Civil Rights Act.
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  1. The Break Room is NOT an official service of Target Corp.
    This is a site run by regular people who are off the clock.
    We do not perform any HR related services, or affect any internal information regarding Target.
  2. we have no legal team at the break room & can not afford to be dragged into court.
 
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Hardlinesmaster said:
  1. The Break Room is NOT an official service of Target Corp.
    This is a site run by regular people who are off the clock.
    We do not perform any HR related services, or affect any internal information regarding Target.
  2. we have no legal team at the break room & can not afford to dragged into court.
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Are you posting this as some kind of disclaimer or something?

I'm fully aware that this is just a forum.
 
I don't think @Hardlinesmaster was trying to offend or say you were going to use this as some form of proof. An earlier post mentioned this thread is becoming a HR event and I think the above was just a simple reminder for all following.

Did you apply or reach out to a recruiter? Basically was your resume submitted through the Target website?
 
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