MEGATHREAD Signing Tips, Tricks and Quips (along with howls of despair)

[greydot]

I feel sorry for whoever has to take down the suns.
They haven't trained anybody for my job, so whoever is stuck doing this stuff is going to be flying blind.
I hope they don't get hurt.

Our sign monster told me today that she never received any training for what she does. It was more or less... here it is, go to it. You'd never know, though. She's done a fabulous job and we really appreciate her. 🙂

Yep. Same. I got thrown in after I was unofficially doing it already (did a remodel where I was on the "audit" team which was basically fixing everything that was done wrong. which was most things) without even knowing it. I had to beg to be sent out for training. And when I got there - their HR neglected to tell the people on POG or the Signing Spec that I was coming. awkward? oh, and it was 4th quarter the week that overheads went up. Needless to say I got thrown in the fire fast, and ended up doing my signing overnight with their Signing Spec and Hardlines ETL (an ETL, going overnight to help signining????? whattt? i know, right?). Which was good because it prepared me exactly for my holiday set, but not signing overall. Also, their store didn't operate the way mine did. Their POG TL divied the workload out to them, which I haven't really seen elsewhere. Also that store used the Signing position to typically springboard people into TL roles so it was smaller in scope as well.

At my store I am the point person for almost literally everything in the building that doesn't get sold. If its not a gondola, plumbing, electrical, or nailed down I get called to figure it out.

But when I started we still had Eureka and a lot of info on workbench. Basically workbench became my best friend along with creative use of MySupport and I basically had to figure out everything I needed to know. that and having an intj personality helps a bit. Also my TL at the time had been with Target for 11 years and my Hardlines ETLs were great. I basically went straight to them with any issues that I had and if they needed anything from me they went directly to me instead of whisper down the alley. also they actually knew what I did all day. they appreciated the work that i did, and I had worked with them extensively in my previous positions.



as for the overheads we have? Okay, so Mini - they decided to do it the day that my pallet came so I couldn't pre-build anything. I did each letter separately. the tails i didn't think i could maneuver the wave around to assemble once they were in the air so I built those on the ground which was okay, but not the greatest. my biggest grip is that I have a two-valley mini, whereas all the mini overheads are set to be in a three-valley mini (think one mini gondola compared to two) and they always have stuff meeting in the middle and its ridiculous to try and straddle the middle gondola for some things like the intersection of the tails on this set for example. i ended up gathering them into a right bunch, then a left bunch, then clipping those together. Its not perfect but I also don't feel like falling off of the wave.

the sun? ugh really, if you make something that big you NEED to think about hanging it. Like, I will NEVER get an assistant to help me with overheads. maybe if i beg weeks in advance, but all this two people stuff is crazy. adjust the design to go up in pieces and assemble in the air. knock on wood all my suns are in tact but they are heavy. its a dangerous sign, and it doesn't add very much at all aesthetically. they could have done a lot better. i'm surprised they didn't do the summer objects randomly all over the store again.

 

[commiecorvus]

I had kinda sorta training by a signing specialist who was burned out on the job and who didn't bother to cover most anything I needed.
It's one thing to walk into a mess and try to learn your way out of it, it's another to think you're doing it right and find out later you haven't.
I found out about many things I needed from this board.
That and signing changes so fast that no matter what you learned something new is coming down the road.

 

[greydot]

....and every single ETL thinks that their version of what they think you should do is right - which will change with every ETL and STL turnover.

 

[TargetOldTimer]

Oh, I was cussing out ism this morning as I was hanging those tails. Like really?

I have a 2 valley mini also. I squished all the letters right together, making sure the space between m&e ended up at the side of a gondola. I finally figured out that if I left the screw off the bottom of the first section, I could then use my pole, instead of trying to drive the wave around the gondolas. Once the tails were all up, I used my pole to adjust the tails straight, then used the wave to connect that last screw, connect tails and attach them to Summer. I much prefer the pole as i think its easier and quicker. Still took me a full 2 hours.

I wish ISM was reading this, but most of us do not get ANYones help hanging signs. We're lucky enough to get the hours for just ourselves. On the Sun, I yelled over to a stocker who was nearby to steady and take the weight off the side of the sun while I quickly used the pole to hang the hooks on one side, then his side.
If I had asked for help ahead of time, it would have been a no go. Better to ask for a "team lift", can't deny that one.

What happened to using foam blocks to create dimension? I would also like to see lots of small pieces hung in clusters to create a design.

I'm really getting tired of massive origami and then having to double up hooks to keep these monstrosities up on the ceiling.





*sigh* I guess I should be thankful, making signing difficult equates to job security.

 

[lookndwnonya]

I have a lot of long metal hooks that I use to hang the heavy signs with, also a supply of metal clips that I used before we changed to those plastic hooks. Unfortunately nothing will be done about the weight of the signs or the method used to hang them until something serious happens.

 

[TargetOldTimer]

When I worked at a store with 22' ceilings, I used baling wire instead of plastic hooks. Little more effort, but they looked so much better than an enormous chain of hooks.

 

[dyskrasia]

I have to laugh whenever I see, "This will take two people."

I'm lucky to get to use the wav, let alone a whole other person!

 

[TargetOldTimer]

Am I the only one who remembers that the stock team hasn't always had a WAV, but my signing hasn't always been this large? The very few times I HAVE to use the WAV instead of my poles, I get the BRTL circling the base, "are you done yet?", and every 5 mins or so, I see him poking his head around the corner.... "NO! I'm NOT done yet! pretend its broken today and use the ladder!!" Sheeeeshh.

 

[dyskrasia]

Hahah I know exactly how you feel!

I've always had a WAV and I really dislike the signing poles. ( Maybe because I never really learned how to use them.)

But for one day, I would like to just use it without the constant badgering!

 

[greydot]

i make charging the powered equipment my job when I know i will need it. our backroom team (day or night) N E V E R charges anything. i plug all the equipment in first thing when i walk in the door so that by the time i'm set up and ready there will be some charge (assuming they don't grab it the minute i plug it in). when we had the hours that i would see the same people all the time, a lot of our steel guys started charging the equipment too and it worked like a domino effect. that doesn't happen anymore but anyway this seems to work, paired with the fact that if i need it from the moment i walk in the door i talk to the o/n team ahead of time so no surprises. seems to work.

**edit
oh and ps - your signing pole is your friend. it helps for quick hang-ups, and maneuvering. when i first started no one showed me how to use it either (old signing person never used it, and everyone used the wav for everything). i actually had four of them when i started and broke one, and gave two to other stores. i almost died when someone shattered the top on my current pole, but luckily i saved the top of the other one and was able to tinker them into one working pole until i order another one.

 

[TargetOldTimer]

I LOVE my pole! I know I am twice as fast than I would be using the WAV. Just takes practice.

I had a pole long before the WAV and the One Up System. Can't remember the name, but the pole extended by twisting it, and the hooks were slid into long magnets that stuck to the ceiling panel frames. I loved that system.

 

[Barnacle Clip]

Am I the only one who remembers that the stock team hasn't always had a WAV, but my signing hasn't always been this large? The very few times I HAVE to use the WAV instead of my poles, I get the BRTL circling the base, "are you done yet?", and every 5 mins or so, I see him poking his head around the corner.... "NO! I'm NOT done yet! pretend its broken today and use the ladder!!" Sheeeeshh.

The WAV came into being around...1998? I think that was it. Before that Signing (ISM) used the red/silver poles with the clear clips. Before that was a blue/silver pole that used magnetic plastic which held the clear square-topped hooks. The magnets often started to fall apart and were easy for guests to knock down, but yes, very easy to put up.

Before the poles and clear hooks were metal hooks with a dog-leg end that you held sideways against the ceiling tiles. The weight of the tiles were supposed to keep the hooks in place....they didn't.
Before that were regular metal hooks with only slight bends on the ends and about 1/4 the weight of the current Rail hooks. A bit of wind or a knock tended to knock these down as well, so using a wrench to keep the ends closed was a common trick. These hooks were used with white ceiling hooks called Barnacle Clips (should still be available to order.)

I personally preferred the clips as once those were on and with closed metal hooks NOTHING would knock them off no matter the weight of the signs, the wind from the Entrance, or some idiot person whacking the sign.

On the WAV itself: This is much safer to use.
Little known fact? The WAVs were for Signing.
Yes, that's correct. Unless the rules were changed within the past few years, the Signing TM has first dibs on using the WAV (possibly the Facilities and AP have a higher right. Imagine it would depend on what they needed to do.
How do I know this?
I asked a Regional rep whose department was over Flow and Signing. He verified that Signing had the right of use over Flow team, that the WAV was originally purchased for stores for the Signing person first and the Flow team second. In fact many areas of the Stockrooms were not allowed to have the WAV in them at all. It had to be main aisles only.

 

[dyskrasia]

I'm sure my Flow TL would just "love" to hear that! Haha

 

[Barnacle Clip]

I'm sure my Flow TL would just "love" to hear that! Haha

Oh, you would not believe the sour look the TL gave. I think I got on his bad books that day. Still, I was right on the matter and made sure I never gave up that right. Now that signing is heavier than ever and far more complicated (omg) any one who willingly gives up the WAV to someone who just wants to take down a 5lb dog food bag is nuts.

I'm not saying that the Flow team should not use the wave, mind. A lot of product is fiercely heavy. I did Pull for years and would have loved the use of something like the WAV back then, but way back in dinosaur years, all you had were 4ft to 17ft ladders to use for everything (assuming the lone CROWN was down or blocked by pallets for some reason and that was often the case.)

 

[dek067]

i make charging the powered equipment my job when I know i will need it. our backroom team (day or night) N E V E R charges anything. i plug all the equipment in first thing when i walk in the door so that by the time i'm set up and ready there will be some charge (assuming they don't grab it the minute i plug it in). when we had the hours that i would see the same people all the time, a lot of our steel guys started charging the equipment too and it worked like a domino effect. that doesn't happen anymore but anyway this seems to work, paired with the fact that if i need it from the moment i walk in the door i talk to the o/n team ahead of time so no surprises. seems to work.

**edit
oh and ps - your signing pole is your friend. it helps for quick hang-ups, and maneuvering. when i first started no one showed me how to use it either (old signing person never used it, and everyone used the wav for everything). i actually had four of them when i started and broke one, and gave two to other stores. i almost died when someone shattered the top on my current pole, but luckily i saved the top of the other one and was able to tinker them into one working pole until i order another one.

lol greydot... the signing pole is not my friend. i tried sweet talking it, bribery, buying it a friend... but i still dump stuff on my head. it just doesn't like me. 🙂

 

[Barnacle Clip]

The pole is too iffy. Many was the time I'd put up clips, then happen to go by on the WAV at a later time and notice that the clips I thought had 'snapped' into place had not...they were partially off and sometimes in danger of falling. Add to this lighting and air vent placements, bent metal, over-painted metal (thank you, construction crew) that was too thick for the clips....and it was just easier over all to use the WAV.

Edit: Oh yes, and they deleted the use of the little magnets that you were supposed to use when hooks landed near a light or vent. Why they did this I haven't the faintest. But they (h.q. man) did say that hooks were never to be put up where lights were.

wtf?! Lights are EVERYWHERE!

 

[Barnacle Clip]

I have a question and I'm sure it's one that's going to inspire a round of cursing, but here it goes:

Small appliance displays. (Yes, let the cursing commence, but this is not about the actual displays, this is about...the shelves.) :angry:

Once upon a time the lowly toaster display sat on a plain shelf with a snap-in 3x5 for company.
Then the shelf decided it it was too blah looking so a flat sign holder was added that ran the length of the shelf.
This holder was quickly discovered to also be too blah....so bullnose shelves were invented.
Lo, but the standard 3x5 snap in did not work out with this, so rapidly was born the flimsy plastic cover.
Which fell down more times than those ladies in the commercials.
So TPTB decided to come up with special bullnose covers....covers so tight that they had to be banged into place and hopefully (cross yer fingers) stay up.
By and large they didn't.
So after a number of years during which everyone cursed (out of ear of the guests) they came out with...
Wait for it...

The flimsy plastic cover. :excited:

What goes around comes around.

Cut to the present.

There were noises about same, but I'm still waiting for yet another fix. May die of old age before this happens. Still can't figure out why we don't just go to plain shelves with the old bullnose sign holders that hold both signs and label strips in such a way you can see both. Even dress them up with those liners...still would look better than what we have now with both covers, signs, fact tags, and back liners going for dives to the floor like lemmings.

Anyone heard of a fix coming for this? Because, you know, I keep hoping.

 

[commiecorvus]

Never had much luck with the signing pole.
I tried using it when we only had one Wave and found that I couldn't see clearly if the the darns things were hooked right.
You could only use them with light signs and it got so there just aren't any of those anymore.

 

[Barnacle Clip]

Please don't say light signs. I think of those monstrosities that used to hang on the walls all around the perimeter with huge photos that went inside. Supposed to be two people on ladders, but this never happened and some idiot lightning guy cut all the cables because they were in his way. :wacko:

Bad, bad memories.

 

[TargetOldTimer]

Please don't say light signs. I think of those monstrosities that used to hang on the walls all around the perimeter with huge photos that went inside. Supposed to be two people on ladders, but this never happened and some idiot lightning guy cut all the cables because they were in his way. :wacko:

Bad, bad memories.

I was terrified of those things......

 

[Barnacle Clip]

Please don't say light signs. I think of those monstrosities that used to hang on the walls all around the perimeter with huge photos that went inside. Supposed to be two people on ladders, but this never happened and some idiot lightning guy cut all the cables because they were in his way. :wacko:

Bad, bad memories.

I was terrified of those things......

Hated with a passion.

I learned (because of the cut cables that no one would fix) that if I positioned the 12ft ladder a certain distance and a certain way....then climbed up and unlatched the top, then carefully opened and let the frame fall on the top of the ladder....I could very, very carefully ease open the two plastic panels so as to lift out the photo and then scurry down, get the new, position it inside, close it up (praying that the edges wouldn't move out and get crimped in the frame or that my ladder (no rollers then, but very shaky) wouldn't dump me off before I could re-latch the blasted thing. and it and I all fell down like Humpty Dumpty. :scare:

What I wouldn't have given for a WAV back then.

 

[greydot]

i was always skeptical of the pole until i got to a point where i could with complete certainty be able to tell if the clips were in all the way. the only downside is when i get the first one in, and the second somehow gets dislodged and falls; resulting in either taking down or coming back to it later with the WAV.

small appliances: we ditched our bullnose shelves and went to 14" shelves with the curved plastic bullnose. full treatment with the liners and they looks pretty good and have held up so far.

 

[Barnacle Clip]

I wish, wish, wish I could talk my ETL and STL into okaying this. Even went into it with a visiting H.Q. signing rep during a remodel. The rep was very concerned, even took notes in his leather portfolio, the whole bit. Then nothing.
We are spending a fortune on those stupid plastic covers and replacement signs and it would be so easy to fix this....some shelves, those plastic bullnose, a handful or two of viking screws....

Want to maintain this store like a shining beacon on a hill while saving them some money in the long run, but they won't let me. It can be very frustrating. Must remember I don't own the company....not my baby.

 

[dek067]

I wish, wish, wish I could talk my ETL and STL into okaying this. Even went into it with a visiting H.Q. signing rep during a remodel. The rep was very concerned, even took notes in his leather portfolio, the whole bit. Then nothing.
We are spending a fortune on those stupid plastic covers and replacement signs and it would be so easy to fix this....some shelves, those plastic bullnose, a handful or two of viking screws....

Want to maintain this store like a shining beacon on a hill while saving them some money in the long run, but they won't let me. It can be very frustrating. Must remember I don't own the company....not my baby.

the "head honcho" of fixtures (who got to visit during target canada opening up) says that the bullnose shelves are all obsolete, everyone was supposed to swap to regular shelves with the plastic bullnoses. we never got that message. i asked why im still getting the bullnoses sent for my prototype when we add shelves if its obsolete. he doesn't know, but swears you can't order them and i must have been mistaken about getting them (we got in 10 shelves during our last reset). i find a little construction adhesive goes a long way in a non-remodel store that looks like an 80s kmart is trying to take over.

 

[TargetOldTimer]

I swear I'm still using the hard plastic bullnose covers on appliance shelves. Never a problem. I originally pounded them on with a rubber mallet (getting really pissed off they were so hard to put on) making sure the top back edge caught under the upper bullnose lip, and I haven't had to replace one in all the years they've been up. When I got the memo to remove them, I refused.


I got lucky, I guess, since everyone I've ever spoken to hasn't had my luck.