Archived Union time?

[lolaboss]

Here's just a bunch of random thoughts:

At my old union job, if someone called off they would have to call people based on seniority. So the longer you were there the more open shifts you could pick up.
When I was hired I wanted full time and was told it would be full time. Being cut to as low as 25 hours is not full time. Union would help with a standard minimum tomorrow workers classified as full time

A co-worker was told not to come in for his 11-5 shift for ELECTRONICS ON SATURDAY. They have cut electronics opener all week, but on a Saturday is pushing it. He mentioned his concern about the situation and said it's pretty busy on Saturdays back there and etl-hr said we will have flow team take care of it. And he mentioned they all leave by 12, and she said she'll worry about it when it happens lol 🙂.

I already have guests asking where all the employees are. One guests said " you could shoot a cannon off in here and not hit a single worker.
Target needs to realize not having people staffed hurts everyone! It hurts the employees(pay), customers ( no one to help them/long waits) and the company( sales/repeat customers decline).

 

[commiecorvus]

Were you full time at Kroger? I've worked in a union grocery store before and the only way that wages shoot up like that is if you are lucky enough to be full time. And since the number of full time positions in built into the contract, it usually won't go up much if at all...and you have no new full time openings due to people staying on and enjoying the benefits for many years.

Part-timers started slightly above minimum wage and it went up between 10 and 25 cents for every 1040 hours worked. And in this contract, there were no minimum weekly hours for part-timers. At one point, the store switched to an automated sales forecast type of scheduling system (similar to myTime) that cut some people to less than 8 hours per week.

And when the contract is up, the store will almost always get what it really wants and let the union claim some small victories. Want to strike to try and change it? Good luck...the stores will find a way to operate with just ETLs and temporary help. It won't be pretty, but they can last longer than the people striking and not earning a paycheck can.

The anti-union video they show during orientation is 95% bullshit, but some parts are actually sort of accurate (like how many things are based on seniority, not who can to the job best).

So my question is which is better, seniority or who the ETL likes best?

 

[Burlseveryday]

Technically I was part-time. I received credit for hours worked at Target which is why I started higher than base pay. Hours were scheduled based on seniority so there were weeks where I was only scheduled 20 hours but there was never a week where I only worked 20 hours. Most of the time management would have everyone work past schedule every week. For the year that I worked I averaged 41 hours/week.
The pay progression for night crew/pharmacy/cashier/grocery clerk is as follows
0-1040 9.13
1040-2080 10.13
2080-3120 11.03
3120-4160 11.80
4160-5200 12.55
5200-6240 13.25
6240-7280 14.00
7280-7800 14.80
7800+ 17.81
GM clerks and baggers make significantly less it starts at around 8 and tops of at about 13
During our last contract negotiation (2012 I believe) the company wanted to make drastic cuts to health care. Eventually, Kroger gave us what we wanted but in other parts of the country like the Indianapolis area I believe contracts were ratified with no health care for part time employees so the deviation across the country is significant.

 

[SFSFun]

So my question is which is better, seniority or who the ETL likes best?

Seniority in this case is a bad thing because the longer people have their job, the more they realize they can get away with doing less and worse work while still getting steady raises and more/better hours.

That's not to say I would prefer an ETL playing favourites...Both situations would suck.

 

[lolaboss]

Both situations suck, but each month an employee should be rated on a scale: like they give for yearly reviews. This rating should be be given a number value and be added to years of service. The higher your rating/number the sooner you get called in.

 

[commiecorvus]

Seniority in this case is a bad thing because the longer people have their job, the more they realize they can get away with doing less and worse work while still getting steady raises and more/better hours.

That's not to say I would prefer an ETL playing favourites...Both situations would suck.

And yet it's been proved that people who are given consistent jobs with steady raises and regular hours are more loyal to the company, more productive and have higher moral.
The idea that somehow because people are comfortable they become useless slugs is totally disproved.
People care about their work and their company if they feel like they are cared about.

Yes, poor performers sneak through the system but they do that now.
I can show you a dozen threads on the subject.
That's strictly a case of piss poor management.

 

[SFSFun]

All of my thoughts on this have come from personal experience, as I'm sure yours have as well.

I would agree that we disagree on the subject.

 

[commiecorvus]

All of my thoughts on this have come from personal experience, as I'm sure yours have as well.

I would agree that we disagree on the subject.

We can agree to disagree since I'm sure there isn't anything I'm going to say that will change your mind but I would like to point out that there is established management science to this.

There is a a principal in psychology called Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

The very base of is Survival which basically comes down to eating, keeping the heat on, and a roof over your head.
We can all agree Spot has not been doing a good job in that area.
This is the vital area to be handled before all else and it's the very least a job should provide.

The second step is Security, knowing that your Survival is safe.
Knowing that your hours aren't going to be cut and that you can relax.
You won't be living in your car next week.

Then there is Belonging that you fit in and get along with the people at your store.
Spot tries to artificially create that with the "Team Member" designation but at my store it was true.
At least among the hourly folk that is.

After that is Esteem, basic social acceptance.
You know, those cards they keep wanting you to hand out?
Recognition that makes you feel like you are accomplishing something.
Now why do they always ring so hollow?

Finally there is Self Actualization the point where you are the best possible employee you can be.
Where you kick ass and take names.
Except you can't do that very well when you feel like there is nothing holding you up.

So here's the thing, you can't get to the top without taking care of the bottom.
Spot wants to skip the first two and magically get the top three.
It just doesn't work like that.

A union will take care of those bottom two, then it's up to you and the store to take care of the last three.

tl:dr Spot wants to get good employees without spending money. A union would fix that.

 

[Goingstrong]

Oh, you can still come in if they ask you not to. But expect to have the same amount of hours cut from your schedule next week. It's called retaliation.

My personal favorite is how on each week of the schedule, there is a cover page that states, "Please check your schedule, it may be changed." Every week.

It's ridiculous. I don't even know why they bother writing a schedule.

I've watched people try to click in. The clock goes beep beep beep. They check the schedule. Look confused. Then get told, "Oh, we changed your schedule."

Lol. I love that one.

Target policy is that once the wall schedule is printed and posted, that is the schedule that everyone is held accountable to. There is no changing the schedule.

 

[redeye58]

Chaw bing....?

 

[commiecorvus]

Target policy is that once the wall schedule is printed and posted, that is the schedule that everyone is held accountable to. There is no chaw bing the schedule.

Posting from your phone?
I have so many jokes I want to make but no I will be good.

You're right they are supposed to stick to the schedule once it's posted.
But no, it doesn't work that way.

 

[Goingstrong]

Lol why the heck is chaw bing even an autocorrect? Edited my post.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

Lol why the heck is chaw bing even an autocorrect? Edited my post.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Kick Shot]

We can agree to disagree since I'm sure there isn't anything I'm going to say that will change your mind but I would like to point out that there is established management science to this.

There is a a principal in psychology called Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

The very base of is Survival which basically comes down to eating, keeping the heat on, and a roof over your head.
We can all agree Spot has not been doing a good job in that area.
This is the vital area to be handled before all else and it's the very least a job should provide.

The second step is Security, knowing that your Survival is safe.
Knowing that your hours aren't going to be cut and that you can relax.
You won't be living in your car next week.

Then there is Belonging that you fit in and get along with the people at your store.
Spot tries to artificially create that with the "Team Member" designation but at my store it was true.
At least among the hourly folk that is.

After that is Esteem, basic social acceptance.
You know, those cards they keep wanting you to hand out?
Recognition that makes you feel like you are accomplishing something.
Now why do they always ring so hollow?

Finally there is Self Actualization the point where you are the best possible employee you can be.
Where you kick ass and take names.
Except you can't do that very well when you feel like there is nothing holding you up.

So here's the thing, you can't get to the top without taking care of the bottom.
Spot wants to skip the first two and magically get the top three.
It just doesn't work like that.

A union will take care of those bottom two, then it's up to you and the store to take care of the last three.

tl:dr Spot wants to get good employees without spending money. A union would fix that.

 

[Kick Shot]

Commie you are so right on! Having come to Spot from a strong union environment, (27 + years) it's been impressed to me not to share my beliefs while on the job, as Spot will hunt you down like the dog he is,,, and send you out the door for good. A strong, well setup union, not only provides decent wages n benefits. It also establishes protections for the rank & file (which also helps management & the company to a certain degree) sets up a process for termination if it becomes necessary. There will still be the ass kissing promotions, but at least all who are qualified will be given the opportunity to apply for "Posted" openings.
Also with such said Union, there would be benchmarks established, that everyone has to adhere to, so seniority doesn't guarantee you will still have a job.
Last but not least, without a solid foundation ie: the bottom, the top will soon fall! Perhaps it already is falling, don't we all wish that we had "Golden Parachutes".

 

[Kick Shot]

We can agree to disagree since I'm sure there isn't anything I'm going to say that will change your mind but I would like to point out that there is established management science to this.

There is a a principal in psychology called Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

The very base of is Survival which basically comes down to eating, keeping the heat on, and a roof over your head.
We can all agree Spot has not been doing a good job in that area.
This is the vital area to be handled before all else and it's the very least a job should provide.

The second step is Security, knowing that your Survival is safe.
Knowing that your hours aren't going to be cut and that you can relax.
You won't be living in your car next week.

Then there is Belonging that you fit in and get along with the people at your store.
Spot tries to artificially create that with the "Team Member" designation but at my store it was true.
At least among the hourly folk that is.

After that is Esteem, basic social acceptance.
You know, those cards they keep wanting you to hand out?
Recognition that makes you feel like you are accomplishing something.
Now why do they always ring so hollow?

Finally there is Self Actualization the point where you are the best possible employee you can be.
Where you kick ass and take names.
Except you can't do that very well when you feel like there is nothing holding you up.

So here's the thing, you can't get to the top without taking care of the bottom.
Spot wants to skip the first two and magically get the top three.
It just doesn't work like that.

A union will take care of those bottom two, then it's up to you and the store to take care of the last three.

tl:dr Spot wants to get good employees without spending money. A union would fix that.

 

[SFSFun]

Commie you are so right on! Having come to Spot from a strong union environment, (27 + years) it's been impressed to me not to share my beliefs while on the job, as Spot will hunt you down like the dog he is,,, and send you out the door for good. A strong, well setup union, not only provides decent wages n benefits. It also establishes protections for the rank & file (which also helps management & the company to a certain degree) sets up a process for termination if it becomes necessary. There will still be the ass kissing promotions, but at least all who are qualified will be given the opportunity to apply for "Posted" openings.
Also with such said Union, there would be benchmarks established, that everyone has to adhere to, so seniority doesn't guarantee you will still have a job.
Last but not least, without a solid foundation ie: the bottom, the top will soon fall! Perhaps it already is falling, don't we all wish that we had "Golden Parachutes".

Now THAT sounds pretty awesome. I think I was just part of a shitty Union in the past.

 

[thatcashierdude]

Now THAT sounds pretty awesome. I think I was just part of a shitty Union in the past.

There's good and bad everything. Some companies have raised their wages to beat out new minimum wage laws in my state, while some unions don't protect their workers and just rake in dues. However, the vast majority of companies (at least in retail) don't fall into that first category and most unions aren't corrupt.

 

[bikebryan]

I'm still not sure what you think a Union will do you, except maybe take your money. I work in a place where we have benefits backed by the collective strength of over 10-million members. Sound impressive?

Recently we had new standards forced upon us to include a call handle time of under five minutes, as well as changing of the duty schedule to include Saturdays. All of this was done without good faith negotiations with the union. The union showed management how this violated not only the master agreement with the union, but also federal law. Sound impressive?

After more than three months, NOTHING has changed. We still work a day that was not listed as permissible in the master agreement. We still have standards to meet that over 80% of our employee base have not been able to meet. So all the union is doing is sucking money out of employee wallets.

I agree that unions had their place; I do not believe they are all that necessary in today's marketplace.

 

[commiecorvus]

I'm still not sure what you think a Union will do you, except maybe take your money. I work in a place where we have benefits backed by the collective strength of over 10-million members. Sound impressive?

Recently we had new standards forced upon us to include a call handle time of under five minutes, as well as changing of the duty schedule to include Saturdays. All of this was done without good faith negotiations with the union. The union showed management how this violated not only the master agreement with the union, but also federal law. Sound impressive?

After more than three months, NOTHING has changed. We still work a day that was not listed as permissible in the master agreement. We still have standards to meet that over 80% of our employee base have not been able to meet. So all the union is doing is sucking money out of employee wallets.

I agree that unions had their place; I do not believe they are all that necessary in today's marketplace.

Do you go to your union meetings?
Are you active?
Sounds to me like maybe your union isn't working hard enough for it's members.
Guess what, you can run for office and change that.
Whats that I hear, you don't have time for that?
Well, it's an option you sure as hell don't have with the company you're working for.

This country is rapidly becoming an oligarchy and the middle class is disappearing.
The time when the country was at it's strongest was when there was the highest union membership.

Why do you hate America?

 

[thatcashierdude]

I'm still not sure what you think a Union will do you, except maybe take your money. I work in a place where we have benefits backed by the collective strength of over 10-million members. Sound impressive?

Recently we had new standards forced upon us to include a call handle time of under five minutes, as well as changing of the duty schedule to include Saturdays. All of this was done without good faith negotiations with the union. The union showed management how this violated not only the master agreement with the union, but also federal law. Sound impressive?

After more than three months, NOTHING has changed. We still work a day that was not listed as permissible in the master agreement. We still have standards to meet that over 80% of our employee base have not been able to meet. So all the union is doing is sucking money out of employee wallets.

I agree that unions had their place; I do not believe they are all that necessary in today's marketplace.

Your personal experience =/= all unions. Maybe you should be more active in your union or call the feds on the company you work for. Personally I'd love to be part of a unionized company, but it's hard to find jobs that are unionized anymore. I'd say there is a much better chance that the union protects workers than the alternative.

 

[Kick Shot]

With out the unions then we'd still be working more than 40 hours a week with no overtime pay, no holidays off, limited (paid) vacation if any at all. No chance of filing grievances, nobody to represent you when being disciplined, fired with out cause, etc etc etc. A union may not be the answer to all problems and is only as strong as it's "MEMBERSHIP", if you don't participate in meetings etc to voice your concerns, you can't expect them to be heard. I'd rather pay union dues (which in many cases is an hours worth of your wages , once a month) then continually see management and up, reap the profits at the expense of those who truly keep a company going.
Your current union and it's "Membership" needs to stand strong, and perhaps ask for an arbitrator.

 

[melvin]

I'm still not sure what you think a Union will do you, except maybe take your money. I work in a place where we have benefits backed by the collective strength of over 10-million members. Sound impressive?

Recently we had new standards forced upon us to include a call handle time of under five minutes, as well as changing of the duty schedule to include Saturdays. All of this was done without good faith negotiations with the union. The union showed management how this violated not only the master agreement with the union, but also federal law. Sound impressive?

After more than three months, NOTHING has changed. We still work a day that was not listed as permissible in the master agreement. We still have standards to meet that over 80% of our employee base have not been able to meet. So all the union is doing is sucking money out of employee wallets.

I agree that unions had their place; I do not believe they are all that necessary in today's marketplace.

Interesting logic. Because we have disempowered unions, let's disempower them even further and put workers with little to no leverage to begin with even more at the mercy of corporations on the assumption that workers will never gain any leverage anyways. Mostly on account of the type of attitude that, say it with me now, "Unions had their place, but they aren't all that necessary in today's marketplace." (Apologies, I hate semicolons.)

One thing I will never, ever take away from the capitalists and their tools in government: they have done a masterful job of convincing wide swaths of peons that it could only be dangerous to organize. "Ooooooohhhhhh...you don't want to do that. Lemme tell ya, we have your best interests at heart! We want what's best for you as a valued employee. Because, you see, what's good for the company is good for you! When we make a profit, you profit! Now (placing arm around your shoulders), we had to cut your schedule down a little more, and I mean this, we know you can get the same amount of work done as usual, because that's just the special kind of slob, er, team member you are!"

 

[commiecorvus]

I really have to hand it to the corporate spin masters, many of them worked for the same PR groups that have managed to keep cigarettes a thriving business even with all the proof that they are a danger to your health.

Working men and woman fought long and hard, (risking their lives and freedom) for unions, in the process improving life in this country in hundreds of ways.
The companies fought them every inch of the way using every dirty tactic in the book finally having to throw in the towel and accept the inevitable (or did they?).
What we get now is a speech about how great and wonderful the unions were but how they aren't necessary any more.
It's just a more subtle version of the short movies Lois B. Mayer made to fight the unions.

It's very similar to the right wingers who fought against civil rights in the past but today are more than happy to quote MLK.
They love to cherry pick his speeches and talk about how Democrats hated MLK (ignoring that all those Democrats all switched over to Republicans after LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act).
So now their trick is to say "But we don't need those laws anymore. Look we've got a black president."
Institutionalized racism is still an issue and will only get worse without strong federal supervision.

And companies who exploit their workers won't go away and the best solution we've found for them is unions.

 

[melvin]

I really have to hand it to the corporate spin masters, many of them worked for the same PR groups that have managed to keep cigarettes a thriving business even with all the proof that they are a danger to your health.

Working men and woman fought long and hard, (risking their lives and freedom) for unions, in the process improving life in this country in hundreds of ways.
The companies fought them every inch of the way using every dirty tactic in the book finally having to throw in the towel and accept the inevitable (or did they?).
What we get now is a speech about how great and wonderful the unions were but how they aren't necessary any more.
It's just a more subtle version of the short movies Lois B. Mayer made to fight the unions.

It's very similar to the right wingers who fought against civil rights in the past but today are more than happy to quote MLK.
They love to cherry pick his speeches and talk about how Democrats hated MLK (ignoring that all those Democrats all switched over to Republicans after LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act).
So now their trick is to say "But we don't need those laws anymore. Look we've got a black president."
Institutionalized racism is still an issue and will only get worse without strong federal supervision.

And companies who exploit their workers won't go away and the best solution we've found for them is unions.

It isn't just craven, dishonest right-wing scumbags. It's a number of things:

1. We do a p*ss-poor job in this country of teaching the history of labor.
2. We still feed into this myth that getting rich is a matter of hard work. Of course, by extension, this means if you don't have a lot of money, you don't work hard. This is still a dominant belief in our culture.
3. We never instilled the pride in being a working class person that you see in many other countries and many of us cling to this belief that if we didn't have rich people, we wouldn't have any jobs.