Archived Unionize

[InForTheShortHaul]

This was early 2000s. I lived in a single bedroom "efficiency" apartment 10x10 bedroom with a 10x13 living room, the "kitchen" was inset in the hallway between the bedroom and living room. $420/month rent

average electric $50/month, internet water and gas included, prepaid cellphone with no data plan. Took the bus most places, grocery store was 2 blocks away.

And what if you needed to go to the dentist? That's a couple grand if you need any work done. Break an arm or get severely sick outside of work? Financial ruin. You were living in poverty and were a few days and a few dollars away from being in financial ruin and debt for a good chunk of your life.

If "living within your means" means avoiding preventative health and dental care and being an eyelash away from perpetual financial ruin then this country is in worse shape than I thought.

 

[nib]

Very well said! Thes people who comment that the poor and low income just need to "live within their means" clearly don't understand the reality of the poor and low income are just one paycheck away from living on the street!

And what if you needed to go to the dentist? That's a couple grand if you need any work done. Break an arm or get severely sick outside of work? Financial ruin. You were living in poverty and were a few days and a few dollars away from being in financial ruin and debt for a good chunk of your life.

If "living within your means" means avoiding preventative health and dental care and being an eyelash away from perpetual financial ruin then this country is in worse shape than I thought.

 

[Miguel]

So many good reasons to form a union.

Let me spell this out for the "non-believers" one last time, I'm going to be straightforward and clear as a bell. I have worked in many different HR positions at ALL the major retailers of the country, and for several other Big Businesses and Corporations too. EVERY retailer FORCES their employees to watch ANTI-union videos? That IN and OF itself says VOLUMES! Secondly, they instruct ALL members of HR, Supervisors, and Managers to STOMP OUT ANYYYYYYYYYYYYYY signs to even ATTEMPT to unionize! THAT is why I am SOOOOO Passionate about this topic!QUOTE]

 

[nib]

Very well said! Unions would make every be paid a reasonable salary and given acceptable benefits.

"No, just live within your means and work to improve those means (whether that's at Target, or elsewhere). There isn't a single TM position at Target that I couldn't teach my 10 year old nephew, and outside of heavy lifting, he could do every single TM job in the store without much trouble. What do you think you should get paid for a job a 10 year old could successfully complete? I think minimum wage sounds about right, small raises as appropriate to keep up with inflation, and that's about it."

Ok, and guess what? I could teach your 10 year old to do the same job of an ETL. I was a TL for years buddy, and I've seen a lot of the behind the scenes "work" ETLs do that a TM like you has no clue about. I can't tell you how many times I went back to the TL/ETL offices only to find every ETL in the building sitting around a table eating gobs of take out food for literally 3 hour intervals. ETLs are purely order takers. Nearly every single direction they give comes from emails/workbench messages/DTL directing them to do something. Then they pass it along to us (TLs) to actually make it happen. ETLs convice TMs like you that they are the brains behind the store, but the fact is nothing is further from the truth. You think when your ETLs disappear for hours they are in their office concoting some master plan to better the store. Hate to tell you this, but 95% of the time they are screwing around eating/playing on the computer/talking to each other. In other words, being an ETL actually requires less brains than a TL or even a TM in some cases.

So, now that we have established a 10 year old could also do an ETLs job, explain to me again why minimum wage sounds right for TMs?

 

[nib]

Well said, it's impossible to have a life worth living at 7$/hour

:dash1:

Maybe you could have pulled this off in like 1980 with a couple roomates. But if you're paying rent for a one bedroom apartment, you couldn't afford rent, electricity, water, internet, phone, grocery, car insurance, etc, on 35 hours a week at 6.50

 

[nib]

Well said! I just talked to someone who was promoted, but told they may not see a raise for the promotion for up to a year! Time to unionize when that starts happening!

The point of this discussion isn't that Unions are "perfect" it's that they are much better than without having one. And while some Unions may only achieve 25 hours a week at some times we all know that some employees outside of unions can be knocked all the way down to 10 hours or less a week! There have been several very convincing arguments on here about why unions are good things, maybe read some of those posts.

 

[nib]

well said, wonder where all the other posts on here went?

I'm going to put this out there because it needs to be said.

First off I'm a former Target employee I left four months ago and am doing considerably better.

Secondly, the fact that Target is making billions but can't afford a livable wage for all of its employees is reprehensible. Also the fact that you work yourself to the bone and they give you a great review only to give you 12 cents more an hour is an insult. Your skills and experience deserve more. Without you the stores cease to function.

From what I've read and observed if the continuing tread continues it will get worse, much much worse.

The largest rumor I've heard is that a college degree will be require for Team Leads going forward. If that's true it doesn't matter how hard you work anymore. Requiring that for an hourly lead position is WRONG and you the employees should stand up for yourselves.

I'd like to see we started to see stores S imagine how quickly Target would fold. It starts with one store, then another and another. Unionize demand a say in the company you work so hard for. Don't let the people on the top **** on your hard work.

Although I know this will never happen it would be nice if it did.

 

[nib]

The key point on this topic is that if Unions didn't lead to better pay, better benefits, and better working conditions, Big Business and Corporate America wouldn't be fighting so hard to stop unions from existing.

My view is this... If unions were so great, then every company would be unionized, and if they were really that terrible they wouldn't exist anymore! Obviously they have a purpose, but if it was a guarantee as a positive or a negative outcome, they wouldn't be around in only some areas! If I had to guess (obviously just a guess I am no expert), I would say that Target isn't lying about a lot of what they say about unions! If we were to be unionized and the wages were to increase, Target would be less profitable! Ultimately, I can't expect Target to do anything that would put its longevity at risk, and if EVERYONE was unionized at Target and got more money (remember, we are talking enough of an increase to give every TM a net GAIN after union dues!) then I would have no doubt that would put them at risk! Let's say 200 TMs per store x 4 (3 normal + 1 union due) dollar raise per TM x 25 hours a week per TM x 52 weeks x 1500 stores = BILLION DOLLAR EXPENSE PER YEAR! We aren't even talking about better healtcare and benefits yet either! Ultimately, that kind of cost increase would mean Target would need to cut somewhere else to stay up, and I would rather we just find a way to make it work without a union at that point...

 

[nib]

well said

And what if you needed to go to the dentist? That's a couple grand if you need any work done. Break an arm or get severely sick outside of work? Financial ruin. You were living in poverty and were a few days and a few dollars away from being in financial ruin and debt for a good chunk of your life.

If "living within your means" means avoiding preventative health and dental care and being an eyelash away from perpetual financial ruin then this country is in worse shape than I thought.

 

[nib]

Haven't seen you in here for a while, hope all is well

The MET argues with that ...



The article goes on the show how the math is incredibly screwed up but that's not what this thread is about so no hijack just the linky.

http://watchingthedeniers.wordpress...e-manipulating-graphs-to-hide-global-warming/

 

[Albusmc]

Hate to break it you guys, the work we do I could train a 7 year old to do... The world is not fair and thats just how it is... The logic of paying everyone 40k a year is funny to me... Do you not realise Target has overhead? You do realise all of those daily sales isnt straight profit? Do you ever look at the AP tracking tool of how much items cost? Target loses money on some things that we sell and to make up for that it has to make it up on other things....

Lets take a box of storage totes Lets say there are 6 in there and they cost $10 each retail and target pays $7 each .. Meaning you sell all 6 you get $60. Take out the $42 in Target cost means without any other cost involved in this item its $18 bucks profit for this box.... Well you forget you have the guy at the DC who has to pull that item who makes $14 bucks an hour and the time it takes them to get it on the truck is probably I'd say 5 minutes of time. So thats another $1.15 of cost in that one item.. Well it takes your team another 10 minutes of payroll to unload it from truck, bowl it, push it. This employee is making $10 an hour. Meaning now your store has used another $1.68 of this items profit. If you happen to break 1 of those 6 which does tend to happen with these totes even after the chargeback process your still out another $5 bucks. So now the profit on that box is like $10.... Now you have to take out the cost of operating such as bags, land rent, electricity, paying the ETLs, cost of the cleaning crew, cost of gifts for your team, paying the people at corporate, and all the other cost that go into running a store. People dont think of these things when they think they are screwed with pay. Its a business they need to make money. Im sure if you owned your own store you would want to make as much as possible also.

Now onto the 40k a year thing... No good could ever come of that... If everyone made 40k inflation would go through the roof... It would just balance out with the cost of goods going up in price. That 15k car would turn into a 25k car, that $1 sweet tea at mcdonalds would go to $1.50. The movies would go from $24 a ticket to $50 a ticket =). If everyones take home pay went up in the country the supply of everything would be less meaning higher prices...

Also if people could make 40k a year working retail as a donkey less and less people would go to college and while your talent pool at Target would probably be much higher the stores would be much more picky in who they pick to work their meaning the people who really need to be working these jobs would be out of luck because more and more people would want this job so those who's talents would only normally be able to land them a retail or fast food job are now out of luck.

People need to learn to live within their means. My team lead spent half of last year as a team member and half as a team lead and he only made $22k last year and he was able to support him and his gf who is currently in school. We also live in a state with one of the highest cost of living. They got a roomate, they dont have cable, they dont go out and party ever weekend, he doesnt wear $100 dollar shoes, he shops in bulk. Not everyone is ment to drive a BMW, own a big house or go on vacations all the time... Work hard for what you want and in the meantime be smart with what you do have.

Thank you!! At last someone who sees the real world!!!

 

[Albusmc]

JuicedSoftball,

I've been saying that same stuff on here since I joined, but it just falls on deaf ears. However, it's good to know someone else has a sensible approach to things.

Thank you for seeing the real world and having common sense!!!!

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

Folks, I do listen & try help out. I do live within my budget.

 

[Red11]

Targets low hourly wage has never really been a grip with me. Its the having to constantly worry about getting my hours that bugs me more then anything, while at the same time watching Target bring more team members in and cutting hours back. They don't give rip about their employee's at all.

 

[JoeKool123]

Well joining a union will prevent team members from getting fired for stupid ****, like nicking their thumbs with a box-cutter which is what happened to me last Tues. Cutting open boxes for 9 hours in a 10 hour shift, at a high rate of speed to keep up with the packers, no gloves or safety knives provided, and after 4 years I'm let go for a nick, because I 'cut the box in the wrong direction'. Really, Target? And cutting in the opposite direction is somehow going to prevent your fingers from ever getting nicked? Better hope I don't find a lawyer with some balls....

I've heard Tgt is cleaning out the older vets, to make room for younger folks. It looks like it may be true, because they have fired several tm's from our dc this year, all for stupid reasons. One got fired for having an argument with another in the parking lot. One dude reported it, the other dude got fired. What happened to listening to both sides of the story? Another got fired for copping an attitude with his gl. He had attitude because earlier she stopped and coached him for *gasp* 'chatting in the aisle on the clock'... for like 3 minutes. I've been coached before for talking on the floor (for a few minutes as well) when a bud from Fac-Ops stopped and asked how my weekend was.

Really think Target cares about their team members? The pay in the dc's is decent, the benefits are good, take what you can get from Tgt but don't plan on the company being part of your future. Unless you're a corporate kiss-ass, I hear they like those.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

Well joining a union will prevent team members from getting fired for stupid ****, like nicking their thumbs with a box-cutter which is what happened to me last Tues. Cutting open boxes for 9 hours in a 10 hour shift, at a high rate of speed to keep up with the packers, no gloves or safety knives provided, and after 4 years I'm let go for a nick, because I 'cut the box in the wrong direction'. Really, Target? And cutting in the opposite direction is somehow going to prevent your fingers from ever getting nicked? Better hope I don't find a lawyer with some balls....

It was in the safety info. To cut away from you at all times. Gloves & spot knives are provided at my store. Spot knives are the only ones allowed to used at my store. 2 types of gloves are provided by spot, latex gloves for pushing & freezer gloves.

 

[Red11]

Target has always been about high turn over, its way cheaper to bring in new people all the time then keep long term employees. Heck its rare that I see a Team Lead or Exec stay with Target long either.

Well joining a union will prevent team members from getting fired for stupid ****, like nicking their thumbs with a box-cutter which is what happened to me last Tues. Cutting open boxes for 9 hours in a 10 hour shift, at a high rate of speed to keep up with the packers, no gloves or safety knives provided, and after 4 years I'm let go for a nick, because I 'cut the box in the wrong direction'. Really, Target? And cutting in the opposite direction is somehow going to prevent your fingers from ever getting nicked? Better hope I don't find a lawyer with some balls....

I've heard Tgt is cleaning out the older vets, to make room for younger folks. It looks like it may be true, because they have fired several tm's from our dc this year, all for stupid reasons. One got fired for having an argument with another in the parking lot. One dude reported it, the other dude got fired. What happened to listening to both sides of the story? Another got fired for copping an attitude with his gl. He had attitude because earlier she stopped and coached him for *gasp* 'chatting in the aisle on the clock'... for like 3 minutes. I've been coached before for talking on the floor (for a few minutes as well) when a bud from Fac-Ops stopped and asked how my weekend was.

Really think Target cares about their team members? The pay in the dc's is decent, the benefits are good, take what you can get from Tgt but don't plan on the company being part of your future. Unless you're a corporate kiss-ass, I hear they like those.

 

[JoeKool123]

@Hardlinesmaster They don't provide gloves in our DC, nor safety blades. The was I was cutting was the way I was taught by a Tgt trainer (granted, 3 years ago). Granted it wasn't the current method of cutting, but still it was 'away from the body'. Their preferred method of cutting does nothing to keep your fingers & thumb from getting nicked. This was zone 5, they have small boxes through that zone. I have big hands. Small boxes + big hands = nicks.

 

[supertech1158]

Unions are the worst idea. Everyone is so spoiled these days. Union were created back when most jobs were dangerous. Back when the death rates at job sites was 50%. Back when those same jobs paid next to nothing at all. Unions served their purpose and brought us out of that era. Here and now unions are nothing more than extra money coming out of your check. Think about it. They might get is another 15% in pay in a union, you'll probably pay at least that back to them in union dues. Ask your grandparents about what working was like for them growing up. We've got it made compared to how they had it. If your not happy with what your making, set a goal to promote up or move along elsewhere.

 

[Hardlinesmaster]

@Hardlinesmaster They don't provide gloves in our DC, nor safety blades. The was I was cutting was the way I was taught by a Tgt trainer (granted, 3 years ago). Granted it wasn't the current method of cutting, but still it was 'away from the

Ok. I guess there are different training bp's from stores & dc's. At the store level, it's discussed in orientation, learning plan, & salesfloor training book.

 

[Rock Lobster]

Well joining a union will prevent team members from getting fired for stupid ****, like nicking their thumbs with a box-cutter which is what happened to me last Tues. Cutting open boxes for 9 hours in a 10 hour shift, at a high rate of speed to keep up with the packers, no gloves or safety knives provided, and after 4 years I'm let go for a nick, because I 'cut the box in the wrong direction'. Really, Target? And cutting in the opposite direction is somehow going to prevent your fingers from ever getting nicked? Better hope I don't find a lawyer with some balls....

I've heard Tgt is cleaning out the older vets, to make room for younger folks. It looks like it may be true, because they have fired several tm's from our dc this year, all for stupid reasons. One got fired for having an argument with another in the parking lot. One dude reported it, the other dude got fired. What happened to listening to both sides of the story? Another got fired for copping an attitude with his gl. He had attitude because earlier she stopped and coached him for *gasp* 'chatting in the aisle on the clock'... for like 3 minutes. I've been coached before for talking on the floor (for a few minutes as well) when a bud from Fac-Ops stopped and asked how my weekend was.

Really think Target cares about their team members? The pay in the dc's is decent, the benefits are good, take what you can get from Tgt but don't plan on the company being part of your future. Unless you're a corporate kiss-ass, I hear they like those.

In terms of team members, I wouldn't worry about them targeting anyone... its honestly not worth the time to try and performance out the "older" ones! Now if the "older ones" have a bad attitude, sure I will coach them... but in the same ways I coach the brand new ones if they are doing the same thing (I just think it happens more with someone who has been with the company a long time as a TM)

Now, where I think the perception comes from is the leadership level... older and more tenured leaders getting performanced out for the younger and newer leaders... While I think that there is a trend of this within the company, there is a reason behind it! Too many people assume that because someone has been with the company for a long time as a TL that they must be good! The fact is that an individuals performance is based off of the expectations that are set TODAY... not last year, not 5 years ago, not 15 years ago when you started with Target... These TLs can't act and do the same things they always have and expect to be a strong performing leader, and if someone points out something that needs to change these leaders need to be able to respond to this feedback! A leader who started last year and one who started 20 years ago should be held to the same expectations, and sometimes the tenured leader is just too stubborn to change as their expectations do...

Don't get me wrong, there are some great tenured leaders in this company who DO respond well to feedback and change themselves as the company changes, and there are young leaders who are not resilient and adaptable and are stubborn... but those aren't as common as the opposite scenario, and that is why we notice the trend IMO....

 

[commiecorvus]

Unions are the worst idea. Everyone is so spoiled these days. Union were created back when most jobs were dangerous. Back when the death rates at job sites was 50%. Back when those same jobs paid next to nothing at all. Unions served their purpose and brought us out of that era. Here and now unions are nothing more than extra money coming out of your check. Think about it. They might get is another 15% in pay in a union, you'll probably pay at least that back to them in union dues. Ask your grandparents about what working was like for them growing up. We've got it made compared to how they had it. If your not happy with what your making, set a goal to promote up or move along elsewhere.

Oh yea, the stories my grandfather could tell you, he was an organizer for the IWW (Industrial Workers of the World).
They are still around and have done some interesting work organizing places like Starbucks.
But it was never the danger part that made organizing so important (although my grandfather had his best luck with lumberjacks and carpenters).
It had to do with quality of life, not being afraid of what would happen to your family if you got sick, not having to worry about getting your hours cut because the boss didn't like you and not being able to put food on the table, not having to work six or seven days a week, not having kids working adult jobs.
The reason unions are reviled and dismissed is a very carefully planned propaganda effort on the part of the people who stand the most to loose if we get organized.

 

[The Mule]

I just ask that no one come in here polarized too much to their side. I've seen a union step in and demand an unfairly dismissed worker(boss simply didn't like the way they looked) be given their job back. This is what they should be about. I've also seen a union defend a road worker for pissing against the side of his work trailer in a busy urban area within sight of a porta-potty, all while within full view of traffic with kids in the cars. This is not what a union should be about. I believe unions still have a place in this world, but I don't believe for a second that they are the be all, end all that can fix any work situation you throw them at.

 

[OneGoodEar]

Target does not make you work for 7 days without overtime pay (or even work without pay), unlike that one pizza establishment I read somewhere here. The point is, unlike that pizza business, Target does not need an union, especially if you take this example.

 

[Retail Girl]

Target does not make you work for 7 days without overtime pay (or even work without pay), unlike that one pizza establishment I read somewhere here. The point is, unlike that pizza business, Target does not need an union, especially if you take this example.

That was my former job. I can't tell you how good it feels to be able to have a break in the middle of a shift. I'm still in the honeymoon stage with Target, though I feel as if I'm generally realistic about it. Regardless, at this moment, I'm entirely thankful to be at Target and not being in trouble for not participating with the pizza company in the parade yesterday (it would have been another unpaid requirement).