- Joined
- Jun 8, 2011
- Messages
- 34,014
Congrats!
StyleStar
VMG VIXEN♡
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2019
- Messages
- 114
Congrats... while working your way up I assume you had great ETL and some that were douche bags. Look back on what made some ETL great and others not so much. In my store the SE ETL will be in TSC while we have 18 drive ups on the way, and he wonders why the team doesn't respect him. Always be fair and consistent.
CleanMyBackRoOm
Hard lines Wizard
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2014
- Messages
- 276
Take notes in your training!
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2017
- Messages
- 257
Trust your team enough to do/know their jobs.
DO NOT MICROMANAGE.
DO NOT MICROMANAGE.
Planosss
User friendly.
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2017
- Messages
- 4,199
Can you shut this down @commiecorvus , I am about to lose it on this a**hole
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2011
- Messages
- 19,903
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2011
- Messages
- 34,014
Before you sign your life away...
And some people hoped that this would go away... Full disclosure, I was (as so many others I see posting here) an ETL hire straight out of college, and turned frequently to this site for tips and advice prior to taking the offer and donning my red and khaki. Although there's already a...
www.thebreakroom.org
Fix It
Former Property Management Lizard
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2017
- Messages
- 902
Hanger return rate. It’s a goofy metric and SD’s and DSD’s don’t look in to it at all typically. Almost all stores are super red in the company (20-40%) and it’s an easy process to turn it green if you take it seriously. Hanger scores are so bad that if you run a green process you’ll get from Group to HQ attaboys, plus it’s money that goes straight to the store budget. DM me for more obscure metrics that will get you promoted faster than red cards and guest survey scores.
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2011
- Messages
- 34,014
From another thread posted by a former etl.
Hey everyone!
Now that I have been away from Target for a month or so and worked at another company, I have felt like self-reflecting and giving some people my opinions on my experiences at Target. I worked my way up for close to 15 years from a part-time high school job to multiple ETL roles (I realized STL/SD was not something I ever wanted to do). Now that I have been somewhere else, and seen how what I would call a normal business operates and conducts its culture, I have realized something. Target (specifically its leadership, most strongly at ETL and above) operates socially very closely to a cult. I know you may think that is strong language to use, and perhaps it is. After starting at my new company, I realized that there was a huge lack of a social, political, and unhealthy strain being put on me as a person. It wasn't about staying in the good graces of an out of touch with reality and mystical person and being forced to fit in with the followers around me, it was about doing a good job.
I went ahead and researched some common signs you are in a cult, and below picked the ten I could find (removing religious specific items) and gave my explanations. I am simply putting this out there because I would imagine leaving Target as an ETL feels like escaping a cult in some regards. For anybody researching working at Target or those that feel trapped, here are 10 signs you are in a cult/Target business college...
Submission: Complete, almost unquestioned trust in the leadership. Increased submission to the leadership is rewarded with additional responsibilities and/or roles, and/or praises, increasing the importance of the person within the group.
Target seeks submission from its store leadership team. To question your leader and their abilities is frowned upon. Challenging upwards is no longer a phrase used, nor is it something that should be promoted to your subordinates. If you can always say yes (even if it leads to bad outcomes) you will be rewarded over someone that said no but succeeded.
Exclusivity: Their group is the only true system.
Target promotes their systems are the best. You are lucky to be a leader for Target and anybody else that says their job is better has no idea that we are modernized, and a glowing example of things will be done in the future.
Persecution Complex: Us against them mentality. Therefore, when someone (inside or outside of the group) corrects the group in behavior, it is interpreted as persecution, which then is interpreted as validation.
Target has a way of victimizing itself to defend its mistakes. Modernization brought us to our knees its first Q4, we do lots of things wrong, and can’t figure out supply chain. When someone points this out though (think of the last external ETL hire that pointed something out their first week), that person is being too critical or won’t “make it” because they can’t adapt. Target wants to give you feedback, but if you give them feedback on their operations you won’t last long.
Control: Control of members' actions and thinking through repeated indoctrination and/or threats of loss.
Target repeats phrases and words on purpose to promote a way of thinking. They want you to recognize, assess, own the business, show resiliency etc. however they do not actually want those specific of things. They don’t want a business owner who can assess, they want someone who can follow their plan to the letter. This verbiage is a control technique, designed to make you feel good about how little of control you have by using words that make your everyday actions feel empowering.
Isolation: Minimizing contact of members with those outside the group. This facilitates a further control over the thinking and practices of the members by the leadership.
This may be a byproduct of the structural changes at Target, but leadership has been encouraged to “stay in your lane” so that we can have true experts in our areas. However, this also keeps your work force segmented and makes them easier to control. When it’s time to get rid of a TL, most of the peers of that person barely worked with them. The attachment is weaker, and you can control the story. The upper leadership can tell whatever story they want (such as the TL wasn’t good at their job) and nobody can disagree because they were sectioned off with the company structure.
Love Bombing: Showing great attention and love to a person to help transfer emotional dependence to the group.
Target needs to give you a reason to stay, because they know it will cross your mind over the years. They promote a team structure (you lead a team, you are part of a team, your leader cares about your well-being) to build false bonds as much as possible. They have meetings to figure out how to get the team at all levels to think they are being cared about... but if you just cared for them and the team environment was true you wouldn’t even need a meeting?
Special Knowledge: Instructions and/or knowledge are sometimes said to be received by a leader. This leader then informs the members.
Target has a way of controlling information and making every piece of mundane information top secret knowledge. We must whisper and keep quiet about changes, whether process or people related. ETLs must stay quiet about who is leaving Target and who is being named as replacements or fear repercussions. It’s toxic, but makes the leaders feel special when they are told before others.
Group Think: The group's coherence is maintained by the observance to policies handed down from those in authority. There is an internal enforcement of policies by members who reward "proper" behavior, and those who perform properly are rewarded with further inclusion and acceptance by the group.
Does this even need an explanation?
Cognitive Dissonance: Avoidance of critical thinking and/or maintaining logically impossible beliefs and/or beliefs that are inconsistent with other beliefs held by the group. Avoidance of and/or denial of any facts that might contradict the group's belief system.
At Target, voicing any opinion other than that of the group and its beliefs is career suicide. It’s common for them to have certain beliefs as to what will lead to increased sales, efficiency, service standards etc. Target pumps out faulty information or bad statistics weekly through its communication mediums which MUST be believed. However, pointing out the flaws in their logic, even using black and white numbers, will always be met with denial, because the people you are talking to know they must believe it or be pushed out too.
Shunning: Those who do not keep in step with group policies are shunned and/or expelled.
This is a common policy among the leadership group, and honestly one of the grossest I’ve observed (and fell for multiple times). When someone in leadership is leaving Target, they are talked to about how they must handle themselves (when they can tell people, how to announce it) in an attempt to contain the information away from the group. If the story can’t be controlled, it’s common for some ETLs or above to not even fulfill their two weeks’ notice so that the team can’t be influenced by them. The group think takes over, and rationalizes the person leaving as good for the company in any way possible. Suddenly the person wasn’t that good at their job if beforehand they were. Maybe they are “dumb for throwing away their career at Target, their pay was so good” despite not talking about the awful stress, work-life problems, schedule issues etc. either way, it promotes a culture of shunning so that if the person shops around the store later, the group is convinced that Target came out on top by that person leaving.
Thanks rock lobster
Hey everyone!
Now that I have been away from Target for a month or so and worked at another company, I have felt like self-reflecting and giving some people my opinions on my experiences at Target. I worked my way up for close to 15 years from a part-time high school job to multiple ETL roles (I realized STL/SD was not something I ever wanted to do). Now that I have been somewhere else, and seen how what I would call a normal business operates and conducts its culture, I have realized something. Target (specifically its leadership, most strongly at ETL and above) operates socially very closely to a cult. I know you may think that is strong language to use, and perhaps it is. After starting at my new company, I realized that there was a huge lack of a social, political, and unhealthy strain being put on me as a person. It wasn't about staying in the good graces of an out of touch with reality and mystical person and being forced to fit in with the followers around me, it was about doing a good job.
I went ahead and researched some common signs you are in a cult, and below picked the ten I could find (removing religious specific items) and gave my explanations. I am simply putting this out there because I would imagine leaving Target as an ETL feels like escaping a cult in some regards. For anybody researching working at Target or those that feel trapped, here are 10 signs you are in a cult/Target business college...
Submission: Complete, almost unquestioned trust in the leadership. Increased submission to the leadership is rewarded with additional responsibilities and/or roles, and/or praises, increasing the importance of the person within the group.
Target seeks submission from its store leadership team. To question your leader and their abilities is frowned upon. Challenging upwards is no longer a phrase used, nor is it something that should be promoted to your subordinates. If you can always say yes (even if it leads to bad outcomes) you will be rewarded over someone that said no but succeeded.
Exclusivity: Their group is the only true system.
Target promotes their systems are the best. You are lucky to be a leader for Target and anybody else that says their job is better has no idea that we are modernized, and a glowing example of things will be done in the future.
Persecution Complex: Us against them mentality. Therefore, when someone (inside or outside of the group) corrects the group in behavior, it is interpreted as persecution, which then is interpreted as validation.
Target has a way of victimizing itself to defend its mistakes. Modernization brought us to our knees its first Q4, we do lots of things wrong, and can’t figure out supply chain. When someone points this out though (think of the last external ETL hire that pointed something out their first week), that person is being too critical or won’t “make it” because they can’t adapt. Target wants to give you feedback, but if you give them feedback on their operations you won’t last long.
Control: Control of members' actions and thinking through repeated indoctrination and/or threats of loss.
Target repeats phrases and words on purpose to promote a way of thinking. They want you to recognize, assess, own the business, show resiliency etc. however they do not actually want those specific of things. They don’t want a business owner who can assess, they want someone who can follow their plan to the letter. This verbiage is a control technique, designed to make you feel good about how little of control you have by using words that make your everyday actions feel empowering.
Isolation: Minimizing contact of members with those outside the group. This facilitates a further control over the thinking and practices of the members by the leadership.
This may be a byproduct of the structural changes at Target, but leadership has been encouraged to “stay in your lane” so that we can have true experts in our areas. However, this also keeps your work force segmented and makes them easier to control. When it’s time to get rid of a TL, most of the peers of that person barely worked with them. The attachment is weaker, and you can control the story. The upper leadership can tell whatever story they want (such as the TL wasn’t good at their job) and nobody can disagree because they were sectioned off with the company structure.
Love Bombing: Showing great attention and love to a person to help transfer emotional dependence to the group.
Target needs to give you a reason to stay, because they know it will cross your mind over the years. They promote a team structure (you lead a team, you are part of a team, your leader cares about your well-being) to build false bonds as much as possible. They have meetings to figure out how to get the team at all levels to think they are being cared about... but if you just cared for them and the team environment was true you wouldn’t even need a meeting?
Special Knowledge: Instructions and/or knowledge are sometimes said to be received by a leader. This leader then informs the members.
Target has a way of controlling information and making every piece of mundane information top secret knowledge. We must whisper and keep quiet about changes, whether process or people related. ETLs must stay quiet about who is leaving Target and who is being named as replacements or fear repercussions. It’s toxic, but makes the leaders feel special when they are told before others.
Group Think: The group's coherence is maintained by the observance to policies handed down from those in authority. There is an internal enforcement of policies by members who reward "proper" behavior, and those who perform properly are rewarded with further inclusion and acceptance by the group.
Does this even need an explanation?
Cognitive Dissonance: Avoidance of critical thinking and/or maintaining logically impossible beliefs and/or beliefs that are inconsistent with other beliefs held by the group. Avoidance of and/or denial of any facts that might contradict the group's belief system.
At Target, voicing any opinion other than that of the group and its beliefs is career suicide. It’s common for them to have certain beliefs as to what will lead to increased sales, efficiency, service standards etc. Target pumps out faulty information or bad statistics weekly through its communication mediums which MUST be believed. However, pointing out the flaws in their logic, even using black and white numbers, will always be met with denial, because the people you are talking to know they must believe it or be pushed out too.
Shunning: Those who do not keep in step with group policies are shunned and/or expelled.
This is a common policy among the leadership group, and honestly one of the grossest I’ve observed (and fell for multiple times). When someone in leadership is leaving Target, they are talked to about how they must handle themselves (when they can tell people, how to announce it) in an attempt to contain the information away from the group. If the story can’t be controlled, it’s common for some ETLs or above to not even fulfill their two weeks’ notice so that the team can’t be influenced by them. The group think takes over, and rationalizes the person leaving as good for the company in any way possible. Suddenly the person wasn’t that good at their job if beforehand they were. Maybe they are “dumb for throwing away their career at Target, their pay was so good” despite not talking about the awful stress, work-life problems, schedule issues etc. either way, it promotes a culture of shunning so that if the person shops around the store later, the group is convinced that Target came out on top by that person leaving.
Thanks rock lobster
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 13, 2019
- Messages
- 650
If you had an etl that you didn't like remember why you didn't like them and don't do what they did. Two try to cut hours as little as you can get away with. Your team will thank you. Don't be a douchebag and let power go to your head.
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2020
- Messages
- 11
Be as transparent as possible with the TMs. At my store, we were talked to like we were 5 years old, given no rhyme or reason for anything other than "just because" and we have an extremely poor retention rate because of that. This goes for any position and any job anywhere though: the more transparent you are, the easier your life will be and the easier it will be for everyone else involved.
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2011
- Messages
- 333
Coming from AP SAFETY!!! Order those cooling vests, hats, cones, spill station supplies, etc. Outside of that, schedule your TL's to the peak times and have them be you. My current ETL SE was fresh out of college when they started and was the type that didn't even know how to screw in a lightbulb. Now they are honestly by far the best ETL SE in the district. They are all about G.U.E.S.T., preach it, announce it, etc. On the flip they know when too much is too much. Don't give the store away like they did when they started, you need to find that balance. They realize what is required and even when hours get slashed get creative and make it work.
- Joined
- May 6, 2020
- Messages
- 2,028
One of Target's biggest mistakes in management.
"My current ETL SE was fresh out of college...."
Target needs to pay an inexperienced TL MORE in order attract recent college graduates instead of making them ETLs.
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2011
- Messages
- 333
I mean... think about all of those hours they put in for less pay than hourly. Not saying long term your wrong as a seasoned TL will do far better than your fresh out of college ETL but most time they think of the bottom line.
- Joined
- May 6, 2020
- Messages
- 2,028
I worded that wrong.
I meant you need to induce an EXPERIENCED TL to become an ETL. However any current TL knows to switch from an hourly TL to a Salary ETL is a bad deal.
Therefore you have to hire these recent college graduates as an ETL and pay them 50K and work them until them burn out.
Target would be better off to hire them as a TL but no one would take that job if it only pays $19 and hour (or whatever it is).
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2011
- Messages
- 2,723
Our ETLs work less hours since modernization started. The team leads deal with all the BS.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2019
- Messages
- 165
Can we trade? Actually I couldn’t do that to anyone not even strangers. My advice for SE ETL trust your leaders communicate at appropriate times.. not when all areas you own are at PEAK TIME. Own mistakes. Ask if you don’t know. The team will follow. BE the example, and remember not everything is a discussion about performance.
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2011
- Messages
- 333
Sorry, no tradsies 😂. I think the biggest thing is having that support. In the past we had SD's that would come down and even coach them for things outside of their control which obviously threw up all the walls. Being able to experience situations, talk through them is a big thing. Have a plan and re-assess it to figure out what went wrong when something does. Our store is a high volume store and hours are cut to the brim for S&E (I want to say they should have 340 hours but make it with 270) yet they still make it work. It is possible with the right plan in play.
SilentCrow
Store Director
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2014
- Messages
- 551
1) Make building a strong team with high morale your focus
2) Support your TLs
3) Don’t ask your team members to do things you wouldn’t do
4) Schedule is the key to success
5) Always be available to your team
you’ll be fine. SE ETL is light work honestly. You’ll be able to gradually become a better ETL and work out what’s the best way to move forward in your career in this role.
2) Support your TLs
3) Don’t ask your team members to do things you wouldn’t do
4) Schedule is the key to success
5) Always be available to your team
you’ll be fine. SE ETL is light work honestly. You’ll be able to gradually become a better ETL and work out what’s the best way to move forward in your career in this role.
