MEGATHREAD $9 minimum wage starts soon!!!

[Kartman]

Working at Target shouldn't be a living

So what should it be?

 

[SFSFun]

 

[commiecorvus]

So how is that people have no problem with a CEO making $5,829 an hour and somehow the idea of someone making enough to survive on when they work a 40 (or frelling 32) is somehow wrong?
I'm sorry but there is nothing that the CEO does that is worth that much of a difference.

Maximum Wage! How much CEOs earn an hour

 

[Kartman]

First, kill all the lawyers.

 

[Retail Girl]

Under 18 helps, but it doesn't solve the problem for people 18+ who are unskilled workers. Like a lot of college students who didn't work during HS.

I just don't think we should be rewarding people for being unskilled workers, everyone should aspire to be good at something.

Minimum wage jobs were intended for entry level workers, as a stepping stone for job skills to secure better jobs down the line.

Go to college, trade school, get certified in something... Whatever. I'm not saying everyone has to go to a 4 year college, just learn something and do it. Working at Target shouldn't be a living (as a TM)

Not to mention the wage hikes are going to increase prices and cut jobs... Instead of having employees take your order at Mcdonalds, you will use a touch screen for example. These are the kinds of changes a wage hike to $15/hr would change. Companies who have to pay more into employee compensation will recoup those costs elsewhere (downsizing, merging positions, raising prices)


I know its probably pointless that I'm arguing this on a Target forum considering most people work for Target and get paid near minimum wage. Always vote in your best interests.



EDIT: Also creating a "lower" wage for people under 18 would mean people over 18 would have a harder time finding entry level jobs as well. Since they are "easy" entry-level jobs, employers would want to employ those under 18 for cheaper. So just as much as it fixes the problem, it causes another problem.

Ok, let's address the touch screen argument. This article says it better than I could. But basically if you don't want to read it, know the following: So far restaurants who have tried this have had to hire more people to deal with the automation, and second, restaurants will go to automation when it financially makes sense...and wages aren't going to be that deciding financial factor...the cost of the technology will:

Long version: the thing about fast food robots is that the technology isn’t currently good enough to effectively replace workers. Yeah, I know Sheetz and Wawa use some touchscreens, but there’s a reason they still need actual live bodies to staff those places. Sure, maybe automated ordering interfaces can handle limited queues in ideal conditions, but dealing with a busy restaurant at rush time is still far beyond their capabilities. This is evidenced pretty clearly by the fact that a McDonald’s in San Francisco currently pilot-testing automated ordering systems actually had to hire more workers as a result of their touchscreens.

You know how we know a wage increase won’t suddenly make fast food companies replace all their employees with robots? Because if that were the case, it would’ve happened already. Automation, insofar as it’ll ever be fully possible when it comes to food service (and the ceiling for involvement here isn’t nearly as high as Republicans desperately want to think**), will happen when the technology and the cost makes it viable, and there’s not a damn thing we can actually do to stop it. It’s not going to magically happen purely because workers started demanding to be treated like actual human beings. Cost-viability on something like that—at least to the degree that robots or touchscreens could actually replace workers, rather than simply making their job easier—is still quite a ways off, regardless of if those workers are paid $8 or $15. Machines and their upkeep are not cheap.

Source: Here's How Every Argument Against a Minimum Wage Hike is Bullshit

 

[Barcode]

Ok, let's address the touch screen argument. This article says it better than I could. But basically if you don't want to read it, know the following: So far restaurants who have tried this have had to hire more people to deal with the automation, and second, restaurants will go to automation when it financially makes sense...and wages aren't going to be that deciding financial factor...the cost of the technology will:

Long version: the thing about fast food robots is that the technology isn’t currently good enough to effectively replace workers. Yeah, I know Sheetz and Wawa use some touchscreens, but there’s a reason they still need actual live bodies to staff those places. Sure, maybe automated ordering interfaces can handle limited queues in ideal conditions, but dealing with a busy restaurant at rush time is still far beyond their capabilities. This is evidenced pretty clearly by the fact that a McDonald’s in San Francisco currently pilot-testing automated ordering systems actually had to hire more workers as a result of their touchscreens.

You know how we know a wage increase won’t suddenly make fast food companies replace all their employees with robots? Because if that were the case, it would’ve happened already. Automation, insofar as it’ll ever be fully possible when it comes to food service (and the ceiling for involvement here isn’t nearly as high as Republicans desperately want to think**), will happen when the technology and the cost makes it viable, and there’s not a damn thing we can actually do to stop it. It’s not going to magically happen purely because workers started demanding to be treated like actual human beings. Cost-viability on something like that—at least to the degree that robots or touchscreens could actually replace workers, rather than simply making their job easier—is still quite a ways off, regardless of if those workers are paid $8 or $15. Machines and their upkeep are not cheap.

Source: Here's How Every Argument Against a Minimum Wage Hike is Bullshit

You just linked an opinionated article, that fails to actually back any of its claims up. Normally I wouldn't care, but when your article uses caps lock and hyperbole to the extent it does, I don't think anyone will really take it seriously unless they already support that point.

Fast food self service would work at a LOT of places, the same way that self checkouts work. Having 1 TM manage 4 or more Self checkouts is a lot cheaper than hiring 4 cashiers.

I don't know why you call them "fast food robots" either, they're effectively just self checkouts. You tap on whatever delicious entry you want, and pay, then it spits you out a number and when your number is called you go pick it up.

View attachment 1158

Full of loopholes. Plenty of ~$15/hour (or more) jobs you can get without needing college. You can go to 2year community college for a vast number of vocations for very cheap as well - the amount of financial aid you would need is minimal and you won't be in debt for the rest of your life. If you have no money and decide to take student loans out for a private college that puts you over $100,000 in debt, that's your fault for being stupid. Just because someone says go to college, they don't mean go to a college beyond your financial means. People who are broke ass poor can afford community college & an associates degree.

Also most people are able to intern while still in College, and can usually get hired on after graduating. Happened to my friend's brother. Also I know Target interns get paid.

So what should it be?

Supplemental Income / Second Job / Entry-Level work for students&kids

 

[DoWork]

If you work 40 hours, you should be able to live fairly well regardless of education or background.

 

[Barcode]

If you work 40 hours, you should be able to live fairly well regardless of education or background.

It's possible if you're frugal and choose low cost of living like living w/ family, or rent a room with a friend. I was making $600+ per pay check take home, 1200 a month -- that was with the wages lower than they are now. Plenty of places around here you can rent a room for $400. I'd probably take a 2nd job as well though since it'd be living tight.

Also you CAN live fairly well regardless of education. There are hundreds of jobs that don't require college degrees that pay better than Target. If you work at Target and want a better living, don't wait for the government to give you a handout (min wage hike and/or welfare), go and FIND A BETTER JOB!!!

If you want one ASAP most Temp Agencies have work that pays at least $12/hr (some higher) and you don't need a college degree in every case. I started as a contractor ~~$17/hr through a temp agency doing Retail IT Project Work, I only got ~~$17 because of my college degree -- my coworker doesn't have one and started at ~$16.

 

[DoWork]

It's possible if you're frugal and choose low cost of living like living w/ family, or rent a room with a friend. I was making $600+ per pay check take home, 1200 a month -- that was with the wages lower than they are now. Plenty of places around here you can rent a room for $400. I'd probably take a 2nd job as well though since it'd be living tight.

Also you CAN live fairly well regardless of education. There are hundreds of jobs that don't require college degrees that pay better than Target. If you work at Target and want a better living, don't wait for the government to give you a handout (min wage hike and/or welfare), go and FIND A BETTER JOB!!!

If you want one ASAP most Temp Agencies have work that pays at least $12/hr (some higher) and you don't need a college degree in every case. I started as a contractor ~~$17/hr through a temp agency doing Retail IT Project Work, I only got ~~$17 because of my college degree -- my coworker doesn't have one and started at ~$16.

1200 a month is not minimum wage, especially with health care requirements. Insurance runs 40 per pay period. 600 a pay period is ~10 bucks an hour.

Regardless, I believe anyone who works 40 hours a week should have a decent place to live(not in a crime ridden area), a full fridge of fresh food, and a rainy day fund. Throw healthcare AND dental care in there, too. A car as well, if not in a heavily metro area. It's not feasible now, sure, but it should be.

*i would replace a car with public transportation if it were possible.

Saying "get a better job" is a cop out. If everyone found "better jobs", logically no one would be working in lower skilled jobs.

 

[Barcode]

1200 a month is not minimum wage, especially with health care requirements. Insurance runs 40 per pay period. 600 a pay period is ~10 bucks an hour.

Regardless, I believe anyone who works 40 hours a week should have a decent place to live(not in a crime ridden area), a full fridge of fresh food, and a rainy day fund. Throw healthcare AND dental care in there, too. A car as well, if not in a heavily metro area. It's not feasible now, sure, but it should be.

*i would replace a car with public transportation if it were possible.

Saying "get a better job" is a cop out. If everyone found "better jobs", logically no one would be working in lower skilled jobs.

Target doesn't pay minimum wage so you're correct it wouldn't. Minimum wage can go up to something like $9/hr and that's fine, $15/hr is just a bit excessive.

$9/hr comes out to $1,370.49/month take-home (which is more than I was making as a GSA even).

Saying getting a better job is not a cop out - not even close. Waiting around for the gov't to raise the minimum wage so you make the wage you want is what I would call insanity. You shouldn't be relying on the government for your bigger paycheck - you should find the job that fits your life situation best.

If you aspire to be in Retail, you should try getting yourself into a leadership role and work your way up the management chain - I would actually respect that because they're positions that take some actual hard-work/skill. Working as a Cashier for a living is a sad excuse. There's a reason that almost every cashier on my team was in high school/college.

 

[commiecorvus]

Here's the thing, people make choices about their jobs and sometimes those choices are made for them.
I help people with disabilities get jobs and for a deaf person folding clothes (a job you aren't all that impressed with) is a major step.
It should pay them enough to pay their bills.
Or a mother who needs to be home in time to take care of their kids and just can't advance because taking more responsibility would not being there for them.
Or on the other end of the scale taking care of elderly parents can cause the same problem.
Life is damned complicated and making broad statements that dismiss the fact that people need to need to be able to make a decent wage is just short sighted.

 

[DoWork]

That's part of the American problem, barcode. The idea that everyone can have it all is a lie. There has to be losers. The fact that someone doesn't have the skill, knowledge, or opportunity to become better does not mean they should forever be worrying about bills and decide whether or not a prescription is more important than food. You're fortunate enough to have the wit or determination to get out of the lower rungs.

I wish everyone could do better. They can't. It's a vicious cycle that destroys many lives.

People aren't waiting around for the government to enforce higher wages. They're actively requesting these hikes. What else are they going to do? Go to college and forget about the problems they faced? No. The good ones will try to get others to see how hard it is for anyone to make it on such low pay.

 

[Barcode]

That's part of the American problem, barcode. The idea that everyone can have it all is a lie. There has to be losers. The fact that someone doesn't have the skill, knowledge, or opportunity to become better does not mean they should forever be worrying about bills and decide whether or not a prescription is more important than food. You're fortunate enough to have the wit or determination to get out of the lower rungs.

I wish everyone could do better. They can't. It's a vicious cycle that destroys many lives.

People aren't waiting around for the government to enforce higher wages. They're actively requesting these hikes. What else are they going to do? Go to college and forget about the problems they faced? No. The good ones will try to get others to see how hard it is for anyone to make it on such low pay.

If people don't think they get paid enough they should search for a better job. Relying on the government for your future is a terrible idea.

There are winners and losers, but if you reward all the losers, nobody will try to win. That being said, even for those who can't do college, there are better options than being a TM at Target.

Yes a $15 wage would be great for a lot of people, but all good things come with a price tag. As mentioned it would cause business to make cuts, raise prices, and entry level positions would no longer Go to unskilled high school students, but rather someone who is older and more skilled. You couldn't create an alternative wage for younger people either, because then they'd ONLY hire people under 18 to save on payroll.

A $15 hr wage hike would cause so many problems, it's not worth it. Some of the people here advocating for it could find their position eliminated due to cuts, and they'd be surprised how hard it is to find a job after that since everyone wants a minimum wage job (more demand than supply)

@commiecorvus I think in your situation I can see the merit of a higher wage, but that does not mean we need a policy that affects everyone to just help a select few. I would be open to legislation that helps people with disabilities. Also people with disabilities can claim SS disability to supplement their income in many cases.

 

[Kartman]

I miss 100 bucks an hour...

 

[IHeartCarts]

lol

 

[redeye58]

I miss 100 bucks an hour...

I'd like to see what that feels like....

 

[Kartman]

Just become a climbing arborist!

 

[redstripes]

Target doesn't pay minimum wage so you're correct it wouldn't. Minimum wage can go up to something like $9/hr and that's fine, $15/hr is just a bit excessive.

$9/hr comes out to $1,370.49/month take-home (which is more than I was making as a GSA even).

My store pays pennies above minimum wage to just over 50¢ over minimum wage for hire on positions (N03-N07).
that's not much higher than minimum wage. One bedroom apartments in my town are rarely below $800-$850, but with some luck you may find one for $750, but again, that's not regular.

I'm not certain how you figure your math of $9 an hour is $1379.40 take home. The gross income on that is only $1440.00 (if given a solid 40 hours weekly for 28 days). With that math barely 4% of the gross income is being subtracted for taxes. I don't know if it's a different state thing or what, but I lose over 26% of my gross income per pay period to taxes, and then the subtraction of health benefits. My Team Members that earn in the area of $10.50 that do not have Target insurance and work 40 hours make about $650 a pay period.

Making roughly $1300 in four weeks and paying $750 of that in rent (if you were lucky) plus water, sewage, electricity, phone, trash, and recycling doesn't leave much room for food, gas, toiletries, etc.

EDIT: In your mathematic defence, you did say "month" not 28 days, so our numbers will have the potential for some variation.

 

[Barcode]

My store pays pennies above minimum wage to just over 50¢ over minimum wage for hire on positions (N03-N07).
that's not much higher than minimum wage. One bedroom apartments in my town are rarely below $800-$850, but with some luck you may find one for $750, but again, that's not regular.

I'm not certain how you figure your math of $9 an hour is $1379.40 take home. The gross income on that is only $1440.00 (if given a solid 40 hours weekly for 28 days). With that math barely 4% of the gross income is being subtracted for taxes. I don't know if it's a different state thing or what, but I lose over 26% of my gross income per pay period to taxes, and then the subtraction of health benefits. My Team Members that earn in the area of $10.50 that do not have Target insurance and work 40 hours make about $650 a pay period.

Making roughly $1300 in four weeks and paying $750 of that in rent (if you were lucky) plus water, sewage, electricity, phone, trash, and recycling doesn't leave much room for food, gas, toiletries, etc.

EDIT: In your mathematic defence, you did say "month" not 28 days, so our numbers will have the potential for some variation.

You shouldn't be in the 25% tax bracket with target income, unless your withholdings are all messed up. I hardly got taxed at target since my income was much lower.

At my job now I'm probably 25% though.

But yeah regardless-- if a job doesn't pay enough, it should be a priority to find a higher paying job.

I think the minimum wage is fine at $9... $15 is too big of a jump, even with the gradual increases. plus there needs to be an incentive for people to go to school to better themselves -- if people can make $15/hr doing anything, a lot of people would be content with that and you'd see a decreased desire for people to become educated and skilled workers.

Not to mention all the other bad side effects like job scarcity (especially for younger people).

I took a break after a few years of going to school and changing my major... It was hard getting back into it to finish it off as it was. if I was making $15/hr as a GSA I would probably have put it off longer even.

 

[DoWork]

Degrees are merely a boom. They're becoming so common that finding jobs in the fields you desire is very difficult. Kick the can down the road 20 years, and we will be in worse shape.

This is a pointless argument, so this will be my last on this topic here.

I'll reiterate what I said previously, though. By default, there will always be losers. They, just as much as those who get degrees, deserve to be able to live comfortably and not have to worry about money to cover needs. Not everyone can, financially or physically, find better work. They're currently being forced to scrape by and their plight is swept under the rug by those who simply say "try harder."

America has gotten away from a fair ratio in pay. Hopefully, with a large push from the left(it's coming. Like it or not), we will return to where fair wages are paid across the board. We have shot ourselves in the foot with lower prices but bigger expectations.

 

[Barcode]

The last thing this country needs is another large push from the Left. That will be the bankruptcy of this nation.

 

[commiecorvus]

Since it took the Left to save us from the Next Great Depression, oh and the last one, talking about bankrupting the country would be something to keep in your back pocket.
Hoover and Bush almost destroyed the US and that isn't hyperbole.
It took two centrist liberals to bail this country out.

 

[Barcode]

Since it took the Left to save us from the Next Great Depression, oh and the last one, talking about bankrupting the country would be something to keep in your back pocket.
Hoover and Bush almost destroyed the US and that isn't hyperbole.
It took two centrist liberals to bail this country out.

I think we'll have to disagree here.

 

[Backroom81]

My store pays pennies above minimum wage to just over 50¢ over minimum wage for hire on positions (N03-N07).
that's not much higher than minimum wage. One bedroom apartments in my town are rarely below $800-$850, but with some luck you may find one for $750, but again, that's not regular.

I'm not certain how you figure your math of $9 an hour is $1379.40 take home. The gross income on that is only $1440.00 (if given a solid 40 hours weekly for 28 days). With that math barely 4% of the gross income is being subtracted for taxes. I don't know if it's a different state thing or what, but I lose over 26% of my gross income per pay period to taxes, and then the subtraction of health benefits. My Team Members that earn in the area of $10.50 that do not have Target insurance and work 40 hours make about $650 a pay period.

Making roughly $1300 in four weeks and paying $750 of that in rent (if you were lucky) plus water, sewage, electricity, phone, trash, and recycling doesn't leave much room for food, gas, toiletries, etc.

EDIT: In your mathematic defence, you did say "month" not 28 days, so our numbers will have the potential for some variation.

The best way to calculate hourly pay to average monthly pay is "rate * 40(hrs per week) * 52(weeks per year) / 12(months)". $9/hr comes out to $1560 a month. A quick run through a gross to net calculator estimates monthly take home pay of $1323.85 for a single person with no dependents. This does not include any state income taxes so this figure would be lower for many states.

In my state, most leasing agents won't accept you unless the total gross household income is at least 3x the cost of rent. Unless you have roommates with jobs, $9/hr limits you to areas with ~$500/month rent. Those don't exist outside of the ghetto. If you're in an oil town, they don't exist at all.

edit: I forgot about the various "hotels" that have no income requirements beyond paying the rent every week. Those tend to be significantly more expensive and are one of the various "poverty traps" that exist. People that live there make just enough money to cover rent and (dirt cheap) food but not enough money to move into an apartment with a leasing contract that would be much more affordable.

I think the minimum wage is fine at $9

Minimum wage isn't $9 in the majority of the country. Only 8 states have a minimum wage of $9 or more. Only 15 states have a minimum wage of $8-$9.

 

[redstripes]

You shouldn't be in the 25% tax bracket with target income, unless your withholdings are all messed up. I hardly got taxed at target since my income was much lower.

At my job now I'm probably 25% though.

May I ask why it is I shouldn't be in the 25% tax bracket while you are saying that you are with your current job?